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  • #16
    I second everything that Brian has said. I own a RTX.100, and it's a great realtime card -- certainly the best realtime card on the market. But . . .

    IMO, realtime cards are now more trouble than they're worth for DV editing -- and I say that as someone who's owned a Canopus DV Storm, a Matrox RT2500 and a RTX.100 over the last few years. Realtime cards get you true realtime DV out, and the RTX.100 (but not the RTX.10, IIRC) offers a terrific realtime color corrector that ALMOST justifies the purchase by itself. But using a realtime card also locks you into using Premiere, and worse, it can significantly increase your chance of running into stability problems, even on systems with 100% vendor-approved components. In my experience, even the most stable realtime solutions (used to be the Storm, now is the RTX.100) are significantly more flakey than any of the main software packages available today. Whether that's Adobe's fault or the board makers' is a question for another day . . .

    So get yourself a Pyro firewire card and a Canopus ADVC-100. Plug the ADVC into the Pyro, and voila! -- you've got analog and digital I/O that looks as good as the output from any of the realtime cards. What's better, you can use it with any editor that strikes your fancy, and all of them today can use the analog out of the ADVC to give you at least some degree of realtime preview on a TV. If you want to capture an analog stream, simply select the ADVC as your signal source -- the ADVC will convert the analog signal into a DV stream that the Pyro can capture without problems.

    As for the pros and cons of a capture card v. a D/A converter like the ADVC: I would definitely go for a converter. Consumer capture cards tend to use codecs that can be problematic for capture (dropped frames) or editing (a lot of them use MPEG-2 for capture, which is problematic to edit). On a modern computer, dropped frames simply aren't an issue when capturing DV over firewire, and just about all the software today is optimized for DV editing. It's a DV world right now -- embrace it.

    Finally, if you do decide to go the converter route, I really recommend getting the Canopus unit rather than something like the Dazzle Hollywood DV bridge. The Canopus costs more, but it's worth it: it works with seemingly everything, without issues. I have yet to hear anyone complain about it.

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    • #17
      Quoted by Brian
      The big advantage of a bridge is that all the analogue capture is in dv format. No need to bother about which codec to use nor any complex capturing with a combination of third-party softwares which do not always co-exist happily. It also means you can use MSP without problems (Matrox RT-Xn series or Canopus Storm etc. cannot use MSP 6.5, only Premier; use with MSP 7 is still under investigation).


      With the new VFW capture drive you can use MSP with the RTX100. Matrox still recommends Premiere tho.

      And although you can just pick up a fire-wire card and your favorite editing app, there's is still much to be desired with a set-up like that.

      For one if you plan to make DVD's get ready for a long encode. The RTX100 has RT DVD export given that you have the necessary components.

      It's true that RT hardware married with 3rd party software such as premiere can give you headaches, but if you put together a system as stable as mine is right now, it's pay off is huge. Sure there are things that I have to render, but with just a firewire card and premiere or MSP for that matter, I wouldn't have the flexibility of RT 3D with savable keyframe attributes.

      It all boils down to what you want and what you plan to do. If a plain vanilla fire wire card suits your needs and you just plan to throw some video on V1a and V1b with a transition between the two of them from time to time then that should suit you needs nicely. If you plan to do anything above that, it would be worth getting a hardware assisted card....IMHO.

      Do your homework before you decide all the cards have different strengths. If you can wait a few months... check out MSP7 that could be the next big hit.

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      • #18
        Ray

        I have already checked out what "could be the next big hit". There is no "could", please replace it with "will" - and it's now less than a month away.

        Also, even a less than 50 buck MovieFactory will allow "Direct to Disc" DV capture to DVD in practically RT (plus the time for opening and closing the DVD) on a fast 'puter. An LE version of this is standard in MSP 7. So your "long encodes" are slipping down the drain.

        IMHO, hardware RT solutions will be a thing of the past in a couple of years, at least for prosumer use. With fast, multithreading, computers and software, their raison d'être will no longer exist. This trend has already been seen by the demise of hardware MJPEG codecs in cards like the Marvel: they were necessary when CPU speeds were about 500 MHz and 128 Mb of RAM was considered enormous, but they died when the more versatile software codecs were able to be used. Similarly, all the RT-card advantages will fritter away and be replaced by the versatility of software.
        Brian (the devil incarnate)

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        • #19
          As time goes by the need for real-time cards drops. Three years ago when I was running a PIII850 I was thinking about a real-time card, now with my P4 2.4, instant preview is very close to real-time. I really don't think it will be long before cpu based systems are real-time. 3.5-4GHz should be the entry point and things should by solidly real-time by 5GHz. Estimates based on Terry's test file. I think we're about a year away. The next motherboard update and cpu update from AMD OR Intel should do it.

          The nice thing about spending the extra money to make your computer so fast is that you realize the speed increase in ALL of the applications that you run!

          -Mark
          - Mark

          Core 2 Duo E6400 o/c 3.2GHz - Asus P5B Deluxe - 2048MB Corsair Twinx 6400C4 - ATI AIW X1900 - Seagate 7200.10 SATA 320GB primary - Western Digital SE16 SATA 320GB secondary - Samsung SATA Lightscribe DVD/CDRW- Midiland 4100 Speakers - Presonus Firepod - Dell FP2001 20" LCD - Windows XP Home

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          • #20
            You guys are full of useful info. I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere. I have some more questions.
            Is the Pentium HT technology useful for making videos now or will we have to wait for newer software that takes advantage of what it offers (aside from the processor speed)?
            I was planning on buying the PC1066 Rambus memory to use in an ASUS board with the 850E chipset. Is the PC2700 RAM much better? I guess it doesn't matter if I go with the HT processor.
            If I go with the DV bridge, what kind of video card should I get?
            In terms of a sound card, I've been told to keep it as simp[le as possible to avoid problems with video. Is this right?
            Thanks alot.
            Jon

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            • #21
              Pentium HT basically emulates a dualie with a single CPU, so if you already have a single P4 cpu.....

              If you decide on a DV bridge I'd go with one of units Canopus sells.

              MSPro7 supports singles, dualies or HT P4's, so there you go for doing videos.

              Dr. Mordrid
              Dr. Mordrid
              ----------------------------
              An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

              I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Brian Ellis
                Ray

                I have already checked out what "could be the next big hit". There is no "could", please replace it with "will" - and it's now less than a month away.

                Also, even a less than 50 buck MovieFactory will allow "Direct to Disc" DV capture to DVD in practically RT (plus the time for opening and closing the DVD) on a fast 'puter. An LE version of this is standard in MSP 7. So your "long encodes" are slipping down the drain.
                Well ok, but I said "could" because it's not here yet and we don't know what other wonders are around the bend. Ulead had the audacity to issue the press release some time ago about doing 5streams RT. So I wouldn't count others out just yet.

                I am sure going forward we are going to see alot of amazing things done in software, but unless you have actually done keyframed manipulations in 3D in RT then you are just playing around. It all comes down to what you want to do and how fast you want to do it. Real Time Preview is not Real Time... simply put.

                And Practically RT is not RT either. Is it worth it for some one who burns a DVD once a week? No, probably not... but if you have the need to burn DVD's often, then yes it would be.

                There is no right or wrong answer here... only you the editor can decide what is right for you.

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                • #23
                  I don't know how well the others support it, but Vegas supports HT, and if you buy 3 now, you probably qualify for the free upgrade to 4 or a discounted upgrade to Vegas DVD.

                  We still use our $10,000 Targa board for component captures in Discreet edit*, but for DV there's really very little reason anymore, and conversions from consumer analog formats are fine with the Canopus or even passing it through your camcorder will work.

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                  • #24
                    How many Streams can VV4 do in RT???

                    I know this will depend on the speed of your cpu.

                    With a P4 2.0ghz and MSP7 they have 5RT streams.


                    ___________________________
                    A barbie that never made it to retail shelves

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                    • #25
                      MSPro7 is scalable, which means >5 streams if your system has a lot of muscle.

                      Dr. Mordrid
                      Dr. Mordrid
                      ----------------------------
                      An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                      I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                      Comment

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