Toshiba 65H82 projectoin TV and HDTV

[wkulecz]

I've stared a new thread because our little exchanges in the "MS joins DVD+RW alliance" thread are getting lost in what's got to be one of the most OT long running threads ever.


Got the HDTV hookup from the cable company. I can't believe the turkey they sent out as an "installer". Hooked up the HTDV decoder box, phoned home giving them some serial numbers for activation and said it should start working in "about an hour" and left. Two hours latter my wife is on the phone trying to get a human to talk to in an attempt to get this guy back since the HDTV channels are blank!

I started reading the manual left behind with the box. Clearly he'd hooked the "digital data" up incorrectly using the wrong cable -- a DB9 to 1/8" plug. The correct 1/8" plug on both ends cable was also in the box so I hooked it up as shown in the manual and presto! HDTV picture. Unbelievable, TW has the gall to charge us $50 for this "installation.
I'll make them send out another guy before I pay it! I'll put it back the way it was and see how long it takes them to figure it out!


Executive summary:

If you are thinking about HDTV for network broadcasts, based on my expereince this weekend, forget about it. Fox is pathetic showing only SD resolution on the HD channel. NBC isn't much better. ABC's NHL hockey game glitched and artifacted so badly I couldn't believe there wasn't a "technical difficulties" disclaimer along the bottom. PBS was generally great quality but has little I ever want to watch. CBS was better than ABC but not as good as PBS. I'll see wht CSI is like tonight as mosly while I was playing with it CBS had golf and basketball neither which I can stand to watch.

OTOH, the HD HBO and Showtime HDTV channels were AWESOME! I'd say the step up in image quality on these compared to DVD is like going from regular TV to DVD was.

My wife loves this thing, I'm impressed by its performance on DVD and blown away by good HDTV material. Its too big for regular TV -- there just isn't enought pixels to fill the screen, the interpolation does better than what I expected, but SD TV IMHO is pretty much maxed out much beyond 25" sets unless further away than "optimum" viewing distance.

At this point my wife is watching bad movies like "The Net" simply because they are in HD!

--wally.

[wkulecz]

CSI Miami in 1080i rocked. Don't care too much for the show compared to the original CSI, but the broadcast quality was great, my wife almost barfed during the autopsy scene.

--wally.

[arciervo]

Re: Toshiba 65H82 projectoin TV and HDTV

Originally posted by wkulecz
OTOH, the HD HBO and Showtime HDTV channels were AWESOME! I'd say the step up in image quality on these compared to DVD is like going from regular TV to DVD was.

My wife loves this thing, I'm impressed by its performance on DVD and blown away by good HDTV material. Its too big for regular TV -- there just isn't enought pixels to fill the screen, the interpolation does better than what I expected, but SD TV IMHO is pretty much maxed out much beyond 25" sets unless further away than "optimum" viewing distance.
--wally.

Okay, it sounds like you might be a target customer for Blu-Ray, once they get the price down.

Based on what I've seen in the showrooms, I agree that true HD material blows you away. On the other hand, analog sources look awful on an HDTV (possibly worse than a standard TV). The only one I've seen so far that did a decent conversion was a 40" Sony direct view. (Of course, being in a store, most of the sets were likely not set up properly in the first place.)

I wish my wife was as interested in hi-def; she's quite happy with VHS tape (although she appreciates the added features of the DVD format).

Tony

[wkulecz]

I'd only really be interested in Blu-Ray or D-VHS when HD camcorders doing at least 720p are also affordable.

Most of what I buy/record is old stuff whos original sources are not generally in good enough shape to benefit from HD, DVD seems to be as good as an old Marx Brothers or WC Fields film can get.

My wife is happy with rental DVDs, & HBO/Showtime except for a few favorites she likes to watch late at night -- Wizard of OZ, Predator, Fantasia.

Whatever comes out as HD-DVD will be great for new production, but unless pristine originals are squirriled away in a film vault somewhere, better than DVD is mostly only going to show more of the films defects and not really enhance the viewing IMHO.

--wally.

[Stringy]

I have TW and an HDTV and you seem to know more than me ;o)
I too had simular problems with TW "installers", and have gotten to know my local phone rep pretty well, most of the time the excuse is that they are outside contractors, pathetic...

With your HD TV box there are Seperate channels for ABC, CBS, FOX HD broadcasts??

With your Toshiba do you leave the TV on the HD input or must you switch back to composite when you want to view a non-HD broadcast??

I have a Toshiba 32HFX71, its a 32" 4:3 HD tube...

thanks
Craig

[moreau]

I (an HDTV Newbie...) have a question for you:

Are network and HBO HD broadcasts in 16:9 or 4:3?

[wkulecz]

Most network broadcasts look to be 4:3 except for PBS and CBS prime-time which seems to be 16:9 1080i -- it'd be nice if the HDTV box indicated what format was being recieved. The two HBO and two Showtime HTDV channels are usually 16:9.

The HDTV converter box has a switch for 480p, 720p 1080i and "native" output format. As far as I can tell, native seems best as the format conversion done in the set seems better than what is done in the converter box.

There is also an S-Video and audio pass-thru so non-HD channels end up received over the "Colorstream" component leads (color coded GBR, labled Y Pb Pr) Thus I only need to change the HDTV input to watch DVD or tapes (Colorstream 2 or S-video 1) The cable guy didn't tell me about the pass-thru, the way he left it I'd have to switch inputs to go from HD to regular TV which would quickly annoy! The cable box is way too slow to switch channels, but that's a seperate issue.

All channel selection is done thru the cable set-top which has a seperate "digital output" that goes into the "HDTV decoder" which has component (GBR) outputs to the HDTV. Don't get sucked into spending $50-100 for "special" cables Normal composite video cables work fine for all three component signals.

--wally.

[Stringy]

Hmm, my setup is alittle different I think...

I have one "cable converter" its my Digital Cable as well as my HDTV reciever...
The way TW here hooked it up was to use the ColorStream outputs and the RCA outs...

Now when I view normal stations, I have the TV tuned to the Line level the box is connected to...
When I want to watch HDTV channels, [HBO, Showtime] I tune to those stations and then I have to change over to the Colorstream input on the TV...

When I leave the ColorStream input and tune to a regular station the picture is quite small, basically it retains the 16:9 letterbox as well as black borders to the left and right when in "compressed mode"...
Normal mode - I get an elogated picture, the borders on top and botton are gone but the left and right borders remain, thus the picture is out of proportion...
Letter Box mode - is the same as Compressed except there are Grey borders top and bottom, left and right borders remian..

And as of right now, I do not get the CBS HDTV feed through the TV on stations like CBS...


Any suggestions??!?!?
Craig

[wkulecz]

Stringy,

Sounds like your setup is a PITA. TW may do different things in different regions. I have two boxes, but the key to convienence is the S-video to ColorStream "pass-thru" on the HDTV converter box. The S-video of my GI cable box (tuner) is hooked to the S-video pass-thru input on the Motorola (4200, I think) HDTV converter.

With the HDTV converter's output in "native" mode What format I get for standard TV depends on the Toshiba's scaler setting -- usually I use Natural which is a full height picture with black bars on the sides, or "theater 1" which is a non-linear stretching that is hard to describe but works pretty well for most things with only a small loss (cropping) of the top and bottom of the picture.

CBS normal TV is channel 11 on my GI cable box, the CBS HDTV is channel 311, this is part of the trick I'm sure -- costa an extra $5/month for the local HDTV channels.

Since you have only a single box, it seems they didn't impliment the "pass thru" that converts S-video to ColorStream for standard TV. I'd complain to TW as that's an unreasonable amount of button pushing requiring two remotes to simply change channels, although that's what I would have if I'd not RTFM instead of leaving it the way the the installation turkey had set it up.

So far my only complaint with this Toshiba is the PIP feature is disabled when viewing either of the two ColorStream inputs. Actually the PIP in this Toshiba is really too lame to be much use -- its simply a split screen instead of a movable, resizable window.


One other thing, the setup TW brings may depend on what HDTV ready monitor you have, they asked when we scheduled the installation.

Ours is 16:9 CRT projection TV. Tweaking the convergence after its position in the room was settled made more difference that I'd have expected based on how white text lacked color fringes before I did anything to it. This probably explains why I'd never suggested getting one to my wife, since I was unimpressed by what I'd seen in the big box stores -- but once she saw one that was set up right at MicroCenter Home Theater Store she just had to have it! I'd like to support the guys that do it right, but we saved over $1000 by lucking into a price match deal at Best Buy a mere two hours later.

--wally.

[Stringy]

wkulecz,

Yes, the TW in my area really doesn't know anything about HDTV and don't even offer the HD broadcasts of regular stations...
I have every channel there is, and like the overall experience, but when you tune in HBO in HD it's a whole new world ;o)

I suppose I'll have to goto my local "cable store" and ask directed questions... the response I got last time was "it is a function of your TV" and went back and forth with Toshiba and the cable Co.

I knew it had to do with what they were giving the set as a signal and not what the TV was displaying...
Another Quirk I found is that I have a digital box, and the channel guide at the bottom of the screen does not show up when viewing an HD program, if I hit the "guide" then the guide shows up, but the preview Picture in the corner is back...

I would have to agree with your wife on the text not being sharp on a projection, I grew up with a large projection, 2 different sets and both weren't particularly sharp for text, though we never had it "setup" by a pro either, plus the newer sets have higher resolution..... I don't have the room for a larger set 32" is big enough
My Set also has the PIP quirks you mentioned, and the PIP is pretty worthless the way they did it....

thanks again,
Craig