OT Has this forum past its best?

[Technoid]

Originally posted by Flying dutchman
@Technoid:

What's so silly about designing a graphics adapter around third-party chips? Everybody else does it. No need to re-invent the wheel.

Remeber the last time Matrox used thirdparty gfx chips??
M3D anyone?

I for one really hate it that I can't use a perfectly good piece of capturing hardware anymore because the manufacturer (Matrox) never got his act together to produce working drivers for Windows 2000/XP, the operating systems that (at last!) support large video files. The hardware is perfectly in order.

The reason that you don't have those drivers are because Matrox DID use thirdparty chips!!!!

Companies like Nvidia and ATI make fast and affordable 3-D graphics processors. Philips makes great tuner modules and 9-bit WDM video capturing chips. Matrox has the technology for good TV-out (it seems nobody else has). Design a good board around third-party chips and you're in business.

Video capturing chips have a comparatively long lifecycle because the video standards remain the same, irrespective of the operating system you use, so the chips manufacturers have an interest in developing stable drivers.

Yeah and thats why you want a STANDALONE capture cards that are not soldered to a gfx chip that will be out of date on a year!!!


If you had said:
"Why dont matrox make a consumer capture card that has a Philips tuner module and video capturing chip. and a DVD-MAX tv out, that can be used togheter with any Vidcard you want"

Then I wouldent have objected at all!

[Kris1]

ermmm....

Quote : "The reason that you don't have those drivers are because Matrox DID use thirdparty chips!!!!"

Sort of. Pinnacle used the same type of Zoran chip on it's DC10+. (Zoran 36060) The DC10+ _does_ work under XP although it's about as old as a RRG and it does that pretty well even, that's to say if you can live with the accompanying Studio software.

As the support for Zoran stuff dropped to a 0-level by Zoran themselves, no doubt it complicated things a great deal in terms of developing drivers. But _just_ blaming it on the use of 3th party chips doesn't cut it, in my humble opinion. It's a matter of economics : Matrox decided it was _not_ economical to develop a driver for these kind of cards. Pinnacle did a comparable kind of stunt, as there's no reason other than money behind the decission to develop DC10+ drivers and not DC30+ drivers. Pinnacle even admitted this pretty openly on their forums. I don't think Pinnacle's programmers are _that_ much better then Matrox's (I'd guess it's quite the reverse case from what I've been through with Pinnacle hardware these last couple of years), so the only reason would be indeed again "economical feasability".

Just my 2 cents.

Kris

PS : You can correctly argue that in terms of quality, a card like a RRG is _passed it's time_ as you and I both know you can get superiour capture results with a good TV-tuner card like a Terratec and good capture software that allows for RT-MJPEG capture purely handled in software. (Showshifter + Cinergy = works pretty well). That's a valid arguement. But don't forget that the same chip on a DC10+ produced (and still produces) a better quality than the RRG could, mainly because Matrox decided to cut back on the quality of it's Proc-Amps by replacing the excellent Philips chips on the RRS by the fairly horible Samsung Procs on the RRG..... *shudder* which represented a cut in production price of a dollar or two per RRG produced. So I still contest it's not so much a question of 3th Party chip as to _sticking to what you bring on the market_. Matrox's graphics card department has a good reputation in that corner, but the RRS/RRG's weren't really prime examples of how it could be handled. I hope it will stay with this one "mistake", as I do like Matrox as a company and they deserve to do well, although I myself do not own any operational hardware of them anymore. (I still have a defunct RRS, a defunct RRG, a G200 and a G400 in my drawer though)

[Sciascia]

OK, the butthead is chiming in here again. I loved my Marvel. I used to have a disorder or seomthing, I couldn't stick with a video card for more than 6 months. Then this baby came out, I got one of the first ones released and it was great. I used it for over 3 years and up until I just got fed up with 704*480 captures and the slowly diminishing 3D power. That wasn't the nail in the coffin though, it was the waiting for 13 months for Win2K drivers that just didin't materialize. I was extremely upset, tough I have gotten over it. I can understand not wanting to put R&D $$ into an old card. I just hope that they can understand me not putting $$ into any more of their products. I switched (fighting and kicking) to an ATI 8500DV and have been extremely happy. I had heard all of teh ATI bashing and the bad driver support. Well, I have had the card for 14 months now and there have been atleast 30 driver sets and 4 MMC suites available in that time. Some were leaked betas, but the amount of work that they have been putting into getting bug fixes (I experienced one and they had to tell me it was a bug or I would have never noticed) has me floored.

The higher end stuff is pretty nice, but for the average shmuck like me who is just playing, it is not an option. ATI has completely taken the video card world over IMHO. The fastest 3D and the only true AIW type card make it hard to beat. If Matrox came out with something a year ago I would have jumped on it, but now, I really doubt that I would go back. The only thing that they still have better than ATi is the DVDMax, ATI's theater mode is alright for watching movies and that it about it. Serious editing is not possible with all of the primary display flickering going on with it when you start/stop a clip.

The best thing about Matrox these days is this forum.

[Kris1]

"Serious editing is not possible with all of the primary display flickering going on with it when you start/stop a clip."

In all honesty, I have not observed that kind of behaviour on my tests with MSP7.0 and the 9000,9500 and 9700 testcards I used ?

[Sciascia]

Kris1

I was talking about flickering with Theater mode enabled, using the TV out t play the clip in fullscreen while in a preview or source window on the PC display. Sorry, I shold have been a little clearer. Anyway, the PC display flashes to initialize the theater mode. With the G400TV it kept the DVDMax mode opened even after you stopped playing a clip, it was lightening fast and was great for choosing a frame to make an edit on.

[Flying dutchman]

Now that I have my DVD writer, I don't really need the DVDMAX anymore either. If I want to make a VHS copy of edited footage I'll create a DVD and make the VHS copy off the DVD player...Plus it has the advantage that I don't need to keep the edited material forever on my PC for future copies.

[Patrick]

The opinion of a long time member

I’ve been a member here for a long time, but times have changed. We used to be a motley crew here, all struggling with “evil frames” using our Rainbow Runner Studio analog capture cards. We had a common bond. Chris, “This Idiot”, was our beloved leader and it was almost like a family. Sure, we had squabbles with one another occasionally, but usually things were patched up soon enough. As the market changed, and products and techniques improved, there became a lesser need for support through this forum. Chris no longer seems to participate and many of us have slowly drifted away. That’s not to say that this forum no longer has value, but it may not be as necessary as it once was. I wish the best of luck to those who are involved with the continuation of this forum. It’s a worthwhile task, but it may be a difficult one.

[Flying dutchman]

I agree.

And it's too bad this forum doesn't include a beer pub - there's quite a lot of members here I'd love to spend a beer!

[Sasq]

Well a member here has written a review of MSP7m which will be going up shortly, there are also (some) hardware and software reviews on the way that will be of interest to some of you.

The MURC staff can only do so much by ourselves (we're not getting paid after all) You will get out of the forum what you put in.

Dan

[Patrick]

I must be gettin' old...

Dan, please don't think that anything I stated was a criticism of you or anyone else involved with the present forum. It's just that "the good old days" always seem better. My hat goes off to you for the effort you're putting into this forum. I volunteer with a couple of different clubs, so I know all about the amount of work that can go on behind the scenes.

[Sasq]

Ahh no offence taken Just a little disheartend with the whole thread...

However I do admit that the DV section has sort of drifted along for a while, I'm working hard at breathing some new life into here, but I will need all of your help - I can't do it alone.

Dan