Final discussion ? :) BX or i815?

[Jkun]

Having resolved all questions I had concerning compatibility, dual gfx cards support and pci master slots, I come to the conclusion that both the Asus CUSL2 and CUBX would do well.

Leaves the suitability for video editing (the most important criteria of course)

I know Dr Mordrid posted that Tom gave his thumbs up for the i815 but I don't think Tom's Hardware tests with nle in mind.

I did read in some places that the i815 has less good PCI performance (still a bit better than VIA though) than the BX, making it less suitable for nle.

Anyone like to add comments or points of view here?

J-kun

[Pertti]

It depends...

The CUSL2 does have its limitations (at least with the currently available bioses) in NLE.

The performance of the PCI bus is not as good as on my P2B-S, and the memory bus didn't bench as high as I expected.

In general the CUSL2 is a very good board, but due to Intel politics, it may not be the one for heavy duty NLE.

Currently my CUSL2 is sitting in my MarvelG400 rig, where it performs and functions just fine, but it did have problems in my RT2K system.

[Grigory]

CUBX:
I changed to it two weeks ago from Abit BP6.

Impression: very stable board, working with 133 MHz FSB with 3-2-2 delays for RAM modules:
1. PC133 128M Hitachi
2. PC100 (!) LG
3. PC100 (!) SEC

These PC100 modules were not working relaibly on ABIT board at 122 MHz, even with slow speed settings.

All three memory modules work very well.
More - I tried two motherboards and both gave me equal results concerning memory speed limits and overall stability.
The resource sharing and distribution is better than for Abit - I have 4 PCI devices and AGP videocard. That setup was difficult to make working with Abit, and much less problems with Asus.
Warning: you must use the latest bios.
Warning: cmd onboard controller has many problems. It refused to detect some hard drives in pair with DVD rom drive, reduced writing speed by 4MB/sec if the DMA66 drive was detected, ... did not work in DMA mode with CD-based driver for Win2000.

Finally, I forced DMA33, used win2000 driver from Asus ftp, and now everything is working well.

PIII 700e CPU appeared to be 100% stable at 933 MHz.

CUBX seems to be very stable in my configuration, and works well for video editing. I did not try uncompressed captures, but software MJPEG codec @ Canopus DV raptor seems to be adequate for VHS captures.
I heard that i815 boards are still in semi-ready condition and may have more troubles because of raw bioses, ...
For videoediting I suppose it is better to stay with the latest BX boards, since they have most problems resolved.

Grigory

[Dr Mordrid]

My feelings exactly as regards many of the new i815 boards.

The P3B-F is a great BX board. It supports buses up to 150mhz, will autodownshift the PCI clock multiplier to 1/4 if you select a bus speed of 133mhz and is very, very stable.

If you go with the P3B-F make sure that you use the 1006 bios. This will make it compatable with the FC-PGA CPU's up to 850mhz.

I use the jumperless Gigabyte GA-6R7Pro/6R7+ with both the PIII and CeleronII CPU's. It works great on the P3B-F.

Dr. Mordrid




[This message has been edited by Dr Mordrid (edited 29 September 2000).]

[cjyo~]

I was unable to get the CUSL2 working with an RT2000 after 4 solid days, and advice from Matrox and every related forum. I put my old ABIT BH6 back into the system and the RT2000 was working within an hour (2am last night).

I'm sending my CUSL2 back as soon as I can get an RMA number.

Maybe it'll work great for you...?
http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum2/HTML/004938.html

[Riddek]

Jkun,
We're in the same boat.(and it's sinking!) I'm looking to build a heavy duty NLE system as well but I, too am stumped as to which motherboard/chipset to go with.

I thought I had settled on the Asus CUSL-2, as I have seen several reviews praising it to the heavens as a rock-solid replacement to the BX chipset. Then I hear from professionals in the field who shy away from it and instead stick with BX mobos due to limitations(?)in it's ablilty to handle NLE.

Jkun,
"the i815 has less good PCI performance (still a bit better than VIA though) than the BX, making it less suitable for nle." I heard that VIA chipsets were terrible for NLE. If the i815 is only "a bit better", does that mean it's in the same catagory as VIA in NLE ability?(ie-terrible)

Pertti,
"The CUSL2 does have its limitations (at least with the currently available bioses) in NLE." Are you saying that problems the board is experiencing are software(BIOS) related and may be fixed with future BIOS revisions? Also, you say you're currently using the CUSL-2 with a G400 Marvel and it works fine? No problems at all? I will be using a G400 Marvel in my new system, so if your setup is working flawlessly then I should have no problems. Do you think it(CUSL-2/Marvel combo) will work OK with a FastTrak100 RAID setup?

cjyo~,
Because (I assume)you were unable to detect any hardware incompatabilities with your RT2000, do you think the problems will be resolved with future BIOS revisions? I'll be using the G400 Marvel for a while, but I'll eventually save enough pennies for a RT2000.

The mysterious i815 chipset. The hardware reviewers love it. The NLE pros won't use it. BX or i815? I guess I'll have to flip a coin.

Thanks in advance for any much needed advice you guys can offer.

[Pertti]

Riddek,

In general the i815/i815e chipset has been designed for lower level systems than the BX was, and some features/specs cannot be fixed with a Bios update. The same happened when Intel introduced the TX chipset, which by far was a lower spec than HX.
I was trying to find a good comparison chart between the BX and 815 to show the key issues, but unfortunately I couldn't find it now (I've seen one, so I know it exists)

I cannot say for sure that the Bios updates will enable the CUSL2 to take the place of the BX board, as there is no definite answers to questions like "Can the 64MB AGP aperture limitation be fixed with a Bios update for add-on graphics adapters ?".

There is no question about it, the CUSL2 IS a fine board and already performs a lot better than the P2B ones did when they were released, but cards like the RT2K require more than it is capable of at the moment.

As I said, the CUSL2 does work fine, without problems on my MarvelG400 system, but I do have a bad habbit of stripping out everything which is not necessary, nor provides any benefit in productivity (ACPI, APM, Active Desktops, wizards of any kind, monitors of whatever, etc... all must go)

The FT33 and FT100 cards work fine on the CUSL2, but I had to take the PCI utilization slider in the FT config utility down to minimum, where the P2B-S doesn't mind the slider sitting on the max (indication of a slower PCI performance of the CUSL2).

Edit: Forgot, the hardware reviewers tend to test the capabilities in gaming, and their interests lie in seeing how many FPS:s can be achieved in whatever benchmark. That doesn't always indicate the performance/capabilities in something like NLE.

I'd like to quote an article I found at http://www.motherboards.org/chipset.html which even being written a while ago, is still the major idea behind building heavy duty systems.

"Those of you who know personal computers know that the most important major component in the PC is the motherboard. Not the hard disk, not the video card – the motherboard. And what is the most important single component on the motherboard? The CPU, right? Wrong. It's the lowly, hard-working, group of chips known as the "chipset." A chipset for me defines the entire system, because every major component in the system relies on the capabilities of the chipset."



[This message has been edited by Pertti (edited 30 September 2000).]

[Riddek]

So,I take it that strong PCI bandwidth is required for NLE... that makes perfect sense. There's a ton of information being fed through the mobo while performing NLE. I guess that's why Dr Mordrid recommends against using a "bells and whistles" sound card while editing. Just more CPU utilization and infomation to possibly "clog the pipes".

Doc,
you had mentioned that you use the P3B-F mobo and it's the fastest of the setups in your lab. If you had to create a new system today, would you choose that same BX mobo, or a different one such as the Asus CUBX?(I've been hearing good reviews on this board)

Grigory,
are you thoroughly satisfied with the CUBX for NLE? How does it compare to the P3B-F as far as features/performance? I understand that this mobo was the "last hurrah" of the BX chipset that Asus released. Did the BX go out with a bang?

Pertti, Jkun, Grigory and cjyo~,
If you had to create a new NLE system today, what mobo would you use? I assume it would be a BX based mobo?

How about all you other Non Linear Editors out there? What mobo would/do you use for heavy duty editing?

Thanks for all your advice guys!

[Pertti]

Riddek,

If I were to build an NLE system for someone else today, even if that someone gave me free hands as far as the budget is concerned, the motherboard would definitely be one Asus P3B-F (got it right this time Doc ).

[Riddek]

Thanks for all your advice and information, Pertti. The fact that the Doc uses the P3B-F was enough to sell me on it, but I wanted to see if a "new and improved" BXer had been released since that mobo. The fact that you give it the thumbs up has sealed the deal.
Thanks again

[Dr Mordrid]

Thanks Pertti

If I were building a new Win9x system today (as in fact I am) I would again build it with an Asus P3B-F.

Key point: get and install the latest BIOS update (1006). This makes it compatable with CuMine's up to 850mhz.

The Gigabyte GA-6R7Pro jumperless slotkey is also very helpful. It comes in a box listing both it and the 6R7+. The way you know you have the right one is that the PCB is blue.

A brand new P3B-F is sitting on my workbench right now waiting to go into a new machine. Multiboot, 512 mb, 30g Plus40 boot drive, RAID, RT-2000 etc etc.

IMHO Intel has a ways to go before the 440BX can be relegated to history.

Dr. Mordrid


[This message has been edited by Dr Mordrid (edited 01 October 2000).]

[Jkun]

Hmmm..

quick question to you P3B users.

Since you're using a slotket/socket processor combo, why prefer the P3B over the CUBX?

Slotkets are always a potential risk, esp. at higher frequencies, so what makes the P3B so much better than the CUBX?

J-kun

[Dr Mordrid]

Basically it's BIOS is more mature. Being a newer product some wrinkles are still around. Remember what was mentioned about it taking time for a boards BIOS to be stabilized for high performance addons?

Dr. Mordrid

[Jkun]

Looks like the CUBX it is. The P3B-F isn't available at the stores here anymore, and they tell me it's no longer made, hard to find now?

And they also told me to hurry : the CUBX is also no longer made. Its successor is the CUBX-E and CUBX-L. Both only 5 PCI slots and 3 DIMM slots...

What's the latst hardware revision available for the P3B-F?

J-kun

[cjyo~]

After problems with the CUSL2, I am exchanging it for a CUBX - I'll let you know how it goes in a week or so...