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Have Sony shot themselves in the foot again?

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  • Have Sony shot themselves in the foot again?

    I've been looking at the specs of the D8 cameras currently on the PAL market (academic interest, only). There are currently 4 models available. Only the most expensive one of these will play 8 and Hi-8 tapes.

    For me, the ONLY raison d'ĂȘtre for D8 was the backwards compatibility to the A8 tapes. Now, this is achievable only if you pay more than you would for an entry-level Mini-DV camcorder. The other three are low-cost, sure, undercutting the cheapest Mini-DV, but with really minimal features and doubtful long-term quality. I suppose that the marketing ploy is that purchasers will feel they have to change to something better after 18 months or so and will want to stick with D8 for compatibility reasons.

    I really don't understand why Sony are perpetuating this bastard format, which appears to be less and less attractive and has lost a lot of the market share that it did have, initially.
    Brian (the devil incarnate)

  • #2
    How many years now?

    Geez Brian, are you still ranting on about D8 camcorders!

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    • #3
      I agree with you Brian. I have always been a fan of D8 format but as you say the low end ones that folks with 8mm or Hi8 will buy are no longer backward compatible. Doh!! I'm currently looking for a DV cam and I have ruled out D8 as I don't think it will be around much longer. I am looking at the Cannon MV630i but can't find any reviews about it. Must be too new.
      paulw

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      • #4
        @Brian:
        Sony is one of the largest producers of tape media in the world. The 8 mm format is their invention so they make money on every 8 mm tape you buy (even if it's a different brand) - quite a good reason for them to keep the format alive as long as possible...
        Other manufacturers do the same, as illustrated by the "digital VHS" format. JVC is terrified that VHS might die out...
        Resistance is futile - Microborg will assimilate you.

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        • #5
          paulw -

          I bought the 600i a few weeks ago. It's my first digital camcorder so I can't compare with anything else but, as an entry level machine I'm very pleased. Only problem is the motor noise is detectable when shooting very quiet scenes. I'll probably get an external mic anyway so I'm not too worried.

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          • #6
            I use D8 professionally all the time. I have both D8 and miniDV cameras, but I love the ruggedness of the D8 mechanism and the tapes. The miniDV tapes and recording mechanisms seem so "fragile" compared to the size and structure of the 8mm. I realize that D8 may someday go the way of Beta, but I will hold on to the equipment as long as I can.
            Monte Pix
            CBIS Video
            Atlanta

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            • #7
              hmm, this is worrying, since I'm looking at upgrading to a Digital 8 camcorder to replace my poor Sony 8mm (not even Hi8.) I was going to stick with Sony after my experences with my Current camera, it's been swimming once and still works. Good some good video out of that trip too

              How do you tell if a Sony Digital8 Camera will read analog 8mm tapes?
              Last edited by the maddman; 22 May 2003, 09:57.

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              • #8
                If I were you, I'd keep the Sony 8, get a good Mini-DV (Sony make some of those as well, the top-of the range being excellent machines) and transfer your old tapes to the mini-DV ones or even DVD disks.

                The only D8 camera in PAL land that is backwards compatible is the DCR-TRV355 which sells for ~GBP 600. I suppose there is an equivalent in NTSC-land. The specs will say whether it is backwards compatible. However, even this, relatively expensive, entry-level camera is not getting rave revues. CU mag gives it a score of only 82%. IMHO, you would get better value by putting in a little more cash and getting a middle-of-the range Mini-DV or better. As Paul says, D8 may not be around for much longer. The only other company to have marketed a D8 has withdrawn it already.
                Brian (the devil incarnate)

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                • #9
                  I was in a similar situation, but my 8mm camcorder had stopped working, so I was unable to play the old 8mm tapes at all.

                  After much indecision about spending 200-and-odd pounds on a new 8mm camcorder, I opted for a Sony Digital 8 - I think it was the TRV240 - which was backward compatible with 8mm and had DV-in.

                  It was a recent purchase at about 420 pounds. I'm glad I didn't procrastinate any longer as presumably this model is no longer available - or maybe a few are still out there ...

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                  • #10
                    I was wondering... why not go for DV? (I am a n00b in video stuff so please bear with me )

                    Hi8... been using them for >10 years

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                    • #11
                      Colin,

                      Why not buy a DV Cam and a cheap 2nd hand 8mm unit for play back of old tapes..
                      paulw

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                      • #12
                        I was going to look for a Mini-DV that had Analog in to "update" my library footage to digital/DVD but alas, My trusty Sony Hi-8 ended it's life when one of my darling relatives knocked it over while mounted on a tripod. The impact must have scrambled it's brain since all it does now is display hash and snow when it is on.

                        This unfortunate turn of events led me to pickup a TRV-320 via Ebay since that could play all my old 8/Hi-8 tapes as well as having analog in/outs for other formats my relatives may wish to convert from.

                        Interestingly enough, I discovered that the "older" versions of D8 all had 1/4" CCDs compared to some of the "new and improved" models which are crippled with 1/8" CCD's. I wish I could have found a 720/820 for a reasonable price since those models had the improved optics in the lenses.

                        As it stands now once I finish upgrading my tapes I will probably sell the D8 on Ebay unless I just hang on to it for the sake of analog inputting.

                        My present Mini-DV format camcorder has no provision for analog in.
                        Perspective cannot be taught. It must be learned.

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                        • #13
                          Why not buy a DV Cam and a cheap 2nd hand 8mm unit for play back of old tapes..
                          Well, I was on a fairly tight budget and knew I wouldn't be using the camcorder to film new material for a while, so the prime motivation was getting at the old footage.

                          I could have got a cheap new analog camcorder for about 230 pounds but I baulked at paying that much when it could have paid for half the cost of a new digital camcorder. I would then have a piece of "old" technology and it would have been even more difficult to persuade myself to buy another digital model. (I must admit I didn't consider 2nd hand.)

                          So the D8 model seemed the ideal solution.

                          I know I won't be filming huge amounts of new footage, so I am keeping backup copies of each tape as DV files (not MPEG/DVD) on a BIG hard drive. So if my camcorder fails I will not need to buy another D8 model.

                          Hard drives are getting cheaper all the time - at the moment you can get a 123GB for 85 pounds sterling (www.dabs.com), and with DV taking about 12-13GB per hour you can archive about 10 hours of original DV - about 9 pounds per hour. Granted it's a bit expensive if you have LOTS of tapes to archive, but hard drive prices are dropping all the time. In a year's time it will be significantly cheaper.

                          It also means that you have instant access to all of your old footage without having to get out the old tapes and re-digitise them.
                          Last edited by colinbr; 27 May 2003, 01:16.

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