Is Sony backing away from iLINK?

[bitz4brainz]

Quote from PCWorld

"All of the new camcorders come with a USB 2.0 port but do not include a FireWire (aka ILink) port. Sony claims that the USB 2.0 interface is faster and, as the camcorder burns video directly to the rewriteable DVD disc, FireWire isn't needed. "

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,108700,00.asp

[Dr Mordrid]

To be honest about it; if you have both a DVD reader and a DVD burner (not an unreasonable prospect these days) why would you need any kind of wired interconnect?

My prolem is that if this is some kind of offshoot of MicroMV. It uses a propriatory header that requires special drivers plus the quality isn't what one would want to use for editing.

Dr. Mordrid

[Brian Ellis]

It's nonsense that USB-2 is faster than IEEE-1394. On my video computer, they measure out respectively at ~ 40 Mbit/s and ~400 Mbit/s. The point is perhaps that, as the signal is more highly compressed with MPEG-2 than DV (and is therefore less suitable for editing), that the extra safety margin offered by the faster connection is no longer necessary, bearing in mind that any other device on the USB port will slow things down more and that few computers, relatively speaking, have USB-2.

Anything of poorer quality than mini-DV is probably destined for the large consumer market, which is not one where editing is done. Those who seek good quality after editing will stick with mini-DV or better, and IEEE-1394. IMHO.

[Flying dutchman]

Until not so long ago, "IEEE 1394" and "DV" were almost synonymous because DV was the only application available for this bus.

The beauty of the DV concept is that it is possible to connect two cameras together and do a digital video transfer from one camera to the next because they speak the same "language" (DV). It's also possible to edit video on a PC and re-transfer it to the camera this way.

The latest Sony inventions (micro-MV and DVD cams) no longer "speak" the DV language, so it's no longer just a matter of connecting two cameras over the firewire bus. So my guess is, they rather dropped the connector completely than get complaints from customers asking why it doesn't work.

BTW, the firewire bus system is technically MUCH more sophisticated than USB2, and firewire hard disks outperform their USB2 counterparts in all tests I've read so far.

[Dr Mordrid]

Exactly.

Once again we have Sony going off on a propriatory bender. Last time was Digital8, which seems to be dying off since they only have a couple of models in the forthcoming generation. Ohwell...

Dr. Mordrid

[paulw]

Also Doc. Dosen't USB have allot more system overhead that Firewire??

[Dr Mordrid]

My experience is that USB 1&2's drivers have more overhead, which results in a high CPU utilization.

This results in not only higher real world throughput for IEEE-1394 but also also less potential for contention with PCI devices given that it, PCI and USB are all on the southbridge and have to push bits through the same interconnect to the northbridge.

This of course brings up the issue of PCI to host memory transfer speeds, which vary quite a bit from one chipset to another. Intel and SiS win this one hands down with AMD showing. nVidia is next with VIA bringing up the rear several lenghts back.

Dr. Mordrid

[Brian Ellis]

Doc

The last time was MicroMV. God rot their souls with always going on a limb and then cutting it off after some clients are stuck on said limb.

I must admit that I'm getting progressively more anti-Sony because of their policies of going against the tide, even for their standard stuff. The only thing I'd like now is their zillion-dollar dog

[Dr Mordrid]

You're correct about MicroMV being the last of many Sony fiascoes. I haven't bought one of their cams since finding out my Hi8 Sony had low NTSC p-p levels....then finding out it couldn't be fixed because all of 'em were that way

Dr. Mordrid

[fberger]

I will avoid non-DV (IEEE1394) camcorders. USB2 smells trouble for video editing. I am shopping for a new one now and saw Sony's and Hitachi's new offering on DVD-R and DVD-RAM. Problem is it's all compressed video on the camcorder. I will stay away from non-standard formats such as D8, micromv and even memory sticks for stills and mpeg.
Right now the only consumer standard is miniDV. Anything else will bite you in the long run. For example, if a device requires manufacturer drivers to connect to Windows, you can be sure that 2 OS generations down the road you'll have difficulties getting a driver rewritten for the new OS.

Going back to the thread title: if Sony drops iLink, they're very stupid. Most new computers now have an iEEE1394 interface built-in, which makes it very easy for beginners to start with video editing. USB connections allow transfer of stills and using the camcorder as a webcam. None of that is useful for video editing. We need both to cover the whole market. Saving 10 bucks by dropping iLink is short-sighted.

Fred

[Flying dutchman]

There's something to be said for mpeg-2 DVD camcorders, though. Since the amount of data (compressed) per second is only 1/4 of that of DV, transferring should be much more rapid even over a USB-2 bus.

[Brian Ellis]

Yes, but the quality is almost pro rata, especially if you edit. It's horses for courses.

[gt40]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
You're correct about MicroMV being the last of many Sony fiascoes. I haven't bought one of their cams since finding out my Hi8 Sony had low NTSC p-p levels....then finding out it couldn't be fixed because all of 'em were that way

Dr. Mordrid

Doc, did all Sony hi-8's have this problem, and how did it manifest itself?

[Dr Mordrid]

It manifested by an RR-S's input procamp not being able to pull the signal up enough to get color captures; all it captured was b&w. This was odd because the RR-S had a strong set of procamps for a capture card.

Since everything else I captured from worked I put it on my own scope and it showed low chroma levels. Next I took it to a Sony shop. In the shop they put it on a 'scope, which also showed low chroma levels. The tech mumbled "dammit...not another one", which I took to mean this was not a rare event.

The camera was off warranty and the a repair wasn't possible according to the tech, so he suggested using a preamp to pull its output up. I got a cheap one and Voila'!! Color.

Later on I purchased an Elite Video BVP-4+ video processor, which can pull a decent signal out of about anything....even that old Hi-8 and some decrepit 15 year old VHS tapes.

Dr. Mordrid

[Technoid]

USB1&2 is also engineered to needing to be connected to a Computer

Firewire don't