Digital camcorder - should I get one?

[DarrenD]

Hi

I've got a Sony Hi-8 PAL camcorder (I live in the UK) and use AVI_IO, PicVideo, Matrox Marvel G400-TV, Windows 2000 SP4 to do my capturing.

I have just got the Pyro ProDVD bundle so I now use MediaStudio Pro 6.52 Director's Cut and DVD Workshop 1.3 SE.

I am tempted to buy a digital camcorder and have noted a lot of woes with DV and DirectX 8 and 9. Should I bother and simply keep what I've got or should I take the plunge?

I have looked at specs and am currently interested in the JVC GRD50EK and the CANON MV650i for the following reasons:

16x and 22x optical zoom respectively (my Hi-8 does 16x and I like it - most DV camcorders only do 10x and that will really annoy me).

Both have analog input (will allow me to capture my Hi-8 through the Digital camcorder via FireWire) so I can remove the need for the aging Matrox, AVI_IO, PicVideo combination.

Both have DV in-out

Both have 800k CCDs



My concern over the CANON is some reviews say tape motion is noisy and picked up on the microphone. Also it is £200 dearer (has 22x zoom though).

Are these worthy features to have and should I take the plunge or am I missing something and the DV woes of DirectX really a show stopper?

Any other camcorders people care to mention would also be useful.

Thanks in anticipation

[johnpr98]

Digital camcorder - should I get one? YES YES YES

Only the current TRV355 D8 camcorder will playback your old tapes, a mate of mine is in a similar postion to you bought the Sony TRV19 & is going to copy his Hi8 edits to DV tape with a borrowed d8 camcorderhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...195036-7954005

The Sony TRV22 has analogue & in may be your best option with your Hi8 camcorder http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...195036-7954005

The TRV33 has 1.0 Megapixel but still only 10X Optical zoom

I still prefer Sony myself

Regards

John

http://www.johnpr98.com/

[DarrenD]

My original 8mm was a Sony and my current Hi-8 is a Sony. I liked them both. The colours are not quite correct on my Hi-8 (it got fixed under warranty once but I'm still not sure it's perfect).

I am not too fussed about Digital 8 since I can use my existing Hi-8 camcorder to play the exisiting tapes into the new digital camcorder onto PC. After that I can sell on the Hi-8 and still have analogue capture of a severe collection of 17 VHS x3Hr camcorder collection of the kids (> 50 hours spanning 10 years).

[paulw]

I am also looking at the DV camcorder way. Don't get the Canon 650i . I has ben panned for bad low lite in both the PAL and NTSC (ZR) versions. The Sony TRV22 and TRV33 are good in low lite however it is a pig to do any manual settings. I am looking at the Canon MVX150i or 100i . These are a 1.33 Meg pixel camcorder which has favorable reviews both in PAL and NTSC (Optura 10 and 20) world

I don't know if the UK version of the MVX150i suffers from "European desease" or not.

[DarrenD]

Thanks for the advice so far. I read about the low light levels on the CANON, funny you don't mention the tape noise.

Another thread running at the moment is "wind noise + authoring of disks" which seems to be talking about the Sony TRV33. My current Sony Hi-8 has a WIND button to cancel wind noise when recording. Isn't this on the TRV33 and so you have to fix it in software? This doesn't seem very good for a £520 camcorder.

Please keep posting!

[paulw]

Darren,

I didn't mention tape noise because I feel it is a subjective thing and not only confined to the Canon camcorders. If you crack up the playback volume on a lot on cameras you will get tape noice via the on board microphone..There is a UK site that has camcorder reviews. I'll post it when I get home tonite..

[Ray Austin]

Well I had a Hi-8 RCA and then bought the Sony TRV30---miniDV.

Let me tell ya that was the best decision I made in a long time. Although the camera is far from perfect it beats the hell outa the RCA Hi8.

I am surprised no one has mentioned battery power. This is probably one of Sony's biggest strengths. With my Hi8 the battery would last 20 to 30 minutes max. Lugging and changing batteries just plain sux. Think long and hard on that one.

Additionally the zoom should be rarely if ever used. Your footage just doesn't look as good when using a zoom. It would be better to pay more attention to mega-pixel, what type of CCD's and how many, how well the camera captures colors, etc. On most websites you should be able to get pics captured from the various cameras..... use that info to make your choice along with all the various connectors and features you want.

The D8 series all use plastic lenses, remember you get what you pay for. It's not saying that these are bad... not everyone can buy a $2000 camcorder. I just think you're spending too much time fussing over the zoom, when there are other things to look at that are much more important.

Optimally a 3CCD camera would be the best, but compare them... they vary greatly. The TRV900 has been around awhile and looks like a regular consumer video camera, but uses 3CCD's. It may be out of your budget, but you might want to check it out anyways.

[KRSESQ]

Regarding audio quality: No matter which camera you get, try to set aside some cash for a good wireless mic set, or at least a good wired mic with a low-impedence extension cable, and an inexpensive fishpole boom. You'll be amazed at the difference it makes compared to the built-in mic. I almost never use the built-in mic on my camera when I'm shooting. I guess running the audio board for Prairie Public Television has made me a little anal about getting Good Audio.

Remember, audiences are more likely to forgive minor flaws in picture quality if you have good sound!

Kevin

[paulw]

Darren,

THis is the UK web site http://www.simplydv.com/

[Brian Ellis]

Of course you should go for mini-DV.

However, IMHO you are making a mistake about lenses with wide zoom ranges. It is a mistake because the wider the range, the more compromises are made and the optical quality is poorer. That is unless you are willing to spend £20,000 on a good pro lens which may have as many as 25 components. On a £600 camera, the lens is worth less than 7% of the price and is usually about as good as the bottom of a milk bottle. I have a Canon pro cine camera and the zoom is 6:1 and I wish I could put it on my video camera, which is also an expensive model with a 10:1 zoom!

If you can possibly afford the extra, it is a good investment to get a more expensive model, preferably with 3 CCDs. Probably the best optics on a prosumer mini-DV, today, is the Leitz lens on the Panasonic NV-MX500, which is also 3-CCD, but costs £1250 or thereabouts. Believe me, this would be a much better bet, even though it has only a 10:1 ratio. In the same price range, you have also the Sony DCR-PC1xx series with a Zeiss-designed lens but only a single CCD. It too has a 10:1 zoom.

Doesn't it tell you something that the higher-performance machines have a lower zoom range than the ones you are looking at?

[DarrenD]

Wow what a set of responses. That has given me a lot to think about. Thanks.

I guess I should have said that my camcorder use if for camcordering my kids growing up (hence the 50 hours already over 10 years). Absolute quality is not paramount (dare I say that about picutres of my kids?). What I mean is it is no my profession but a hobby. However, knowing which are the key areas is important and for your feedback I appreciate that.

Certainly £1250 is way out of my price range (£600 tops). I appreciate that you get what you pay for. When comparing different models how do I determine the quality areas? I guess an external MIC is easy - it is not part of the camcorder so does not affect from purchase. But what about plastic lens milk bottles and 3CCDs? It would be easy if one shop had all models and I did a side-by-side comparison - do a 10x zoom, 16x and 22x then playback on the same TV. I guess a 10x zoom with good (glass?) lens and CCD should be clearer than a 22x zoom with milk bottle lens at the same 10x zoom.

I fully understand about battery life, my Hi-8 has the standard 1 hour battery plus a 4 hour battery. My original 8mm had a 1 hour battery and 2 hour battery (6 heavy AAs that weighed a ton). I like the fact that my current Sony batteries are the same size and not that much different in weight. I noticed some generic battery packs for digital camcorders seem very "tall". Are the longer life Sony ones most compact inside (better battery) whereas generic ones simply add the same but more batteries to get the life?

Am I looking too deeply into this? Is it really a case that all are going to better than what I've got and if I find one with the features I require I will be happy about it? I understand that if you are in a particular field you look for quality in that area, e.g. audio for KRSESQ.

I guess the absolute givens are:
not MicroMV - too proprietary/poor software support?
must have external MIC input
must have analogue input

My wife's priorities are:
weight - camcorder+battery+tape (not her own)
LCD flip out screen - not tied to the viewfinder
ease of use - point and shoot

Once again thanks very much for your input and time.

[Ray Austin]

I would search the web for models in your price range.

Get pictures taken by the camcorders that have alot of colors in them. Look for quality you can accept.

It would be no different than taking a test drive in a car.

The zoom makes no difference. The more you use it, the more you have to edit it out. Plus try holding the camera steady with the zoom all the way out... it's impossible. If you want zoom buy some binoculars.

batteries, batteries, batteries. To me it's one of the most important things.

Carl Zeiss lens is on the sony TRV30 no plastic! Got it on Ebay and saved close to $500 +tax [$USD] over buying from the store.

MiniDV would be a good bet. However as time moves forward it's likely the format will probably change to DVD type disc or laptop hard-disk. So I don't think I would rate this too highly. If the camera captures a decent picture that is acceptable to you and has the options you like [able to take pics, mic in, RCA in, out etc. ]

Don't exhaust yourself to much. $600 or whatever under $1000 is all pretty much the same, except for battery life +size of battery, zoom which is really meaningless. Another cool thing is night vision camera> especially for family type stuff. I got some priceless video this way sitting in a car at night. If no one knows your filming you can only imagine what you'll get. [Ahh rule number one, always take the camera!]

If it were me I'd get a Sony in that price range... although I think there are a few canon models that I might check out too.

Good luck with your search.....