DV Capture card?

[kropotkin]

I've just purchased a mini DV based camcorder and i was making my shopping list for extras ... So, what good dv capture cards with dv out could you recomand me ... 'cause i'm a freshman in dv field , only analog 'till now...
There is a significant quality difference between a value card and a high end one?
I don't really need any realtime effects just fw in and out, so i can output back to tape.
Thanks!

Adrian

[Brian Ellis]

I suspect, in this day and age, they are all created equal. Their function is simply to transfer data and they do not modify it, en route.

Perhaps a coupla years ago, some of them might have crashed or done other stupidities.

My advice is buy the cheapest that comes with the software bundle you prefer (or simply the cheapest if you already have the software!)

[kropotkin]

Like i thoght ...
However, i came over some stuff on the net about OCPI cards that use the ms codec which, some say, is not the best codec. However, if i'm not mistaken, the codec acts more like a wrapper, i mean, it's loss less. Does it matters in any way?

[Dr Mordrid]

The DV codec is like any other codec but it isn't used to encode the data before transfer from the cam to the computer; the cams DV encoder chip has done that already. Only that part of MSDV that handles device control is used in "captures".

The compressor/decompressor part is used by the editor, and here it's very important. What it does is render the changes in an edit (effects, titles, transitions, filters etc.) during exports; be they to disk or IEEE-1394. In this not all DV codecs are equal.

The MS DV codec was at one time a pariah with all manner of color errors and artifacting, but since about Dx8.1 it hasn't been that bad. Still; DV codecs like MainConcepts DV codec (to be included now with Premiere Pro) and those by Matrox and Canopus are better....much better.

Whatever you do don't install the old DV-Soft codec. It's way out of date and often incompatable with new software and device controls.

MainConcepts is the only one commercially available. Matrox's comes with their RT.X cards and the Canopus codec is tied to their editing hardware.

Dr. Mordrid

[kropotkin]

Damn, it looks like i should also buy some sort of editing card. Canopus is probably the best option, as it is also cheaper. I just hope that they have some plain editing card with no analog input , as my camera already has them.

[Dr Mordrid]

To get the Canopus codec something along the lines of the AVDC-100 is the ticket at about $300 USD. It's a breakout box that plugs into an IEEE-1394 card and gives you both analog and digital I/O. Nice product.

The MainConcept DV codec runs about $50 and can be used to render output you import using a generic IEEE-1394 card.

Dr. Mordrid

[kropotkin]

Well, i'll look into it. Thanks for your kind advice,

Adrian

[Morgoth]

when you purchase the advc-100, I thought it came with no software. So how does buying the adbc-100 get you the canopus codec so you can edit in something like ulead media studio pro?

morgoth

[mits]

Well, I agree with all the above, but if you are on a tight budget -and since you don't want realtime render- you could always consider an ADS Pyro firewire card which are good and cheap and also buy the mainconcept dv codec which costs around 25$.

[Brian Ellis]

Confusion reigns here.

1. When you import a DV stream from a camera or bridge, it is, by default, with cards running MS-1394 in the MS type 1 DV format. You cannot capture, with ordinary cards, in MSP, with other DV codecs.

2. The difference between Dx9 MS and MC type 1 formats is small to the point of being negligible in most situations. I recently had a difficult DV stream in MS which I re-rendered to MC: no improvement to the eye.

3. The ADVC-100 has no software codec, but it does have the Canopus Analogue<>DV codec in firmware.

[kropotkin]

Well yes, but how about output back to dv tape? In this case Canopus uses the internal dv codec for export, or what?

Still confused ,

Adrian

[Brian Ellis]

You have the advc-100 off if outputting from the computer to DV tape: it is a different IEEE-1394 circuit, going straight to the camera.

Brian

[Morgoth]

sorry to be thick, and sorry to keep butting in on someone elses query(!) but can I just get this right, as I am thinking of replacing my g200 marvel with a canopus advc-100, I just want to be sure.

1) you can capture with via software such as mspro 7 when it is plugged in to the firewire card. The advc-100 converts internally from analogue to dv, using its own hardware codec. THis is seen on the machine as an avi file though, using the ms dv codec?

2) you can then edit in mspro 7, with it in this ms dv codec form, and ultimately re output to the advc-100 via the firewire, and this then runs it through its hardware canopus codec decompressor to output anologue, which you can plop onto vcr, or whatever?

3) Is the quality ok having been through the canopus codec, and ending up as this ms codec? My main use for this is editing to/from anlogue camcorder, capturing old vhs and converting to dvd via tmpgenc encoders. I also want the flexibility of the dv option for when I upgrade my camcorder.

Is this the box I want?

thanks

[cuddles]

These are good questions!
Does it do all this??

Thanks

Opps fogot.
Can one assume that MSP 6, 6.5 & 7 (with patches) all handle this device.

[davpen]

1) you can capture with via software such as mspro 7 when it is plugged in to the firewire card. The advc-100 converts internally from analogue to dv, using its own hardware codec. THis is seen on the machine as an avi file though, using the ms dv codec?

Yes. The ADVC-100 uses its internal codec to convert from analogue to DV. During capture the MS codec simplay packages this as an AVI file.

2) you can then edit in mspro 7, with it in this ms dv codec form, and ultimately re output to the advc-100 via the firewire, and this then runs it through its hardware canopus codec decompressor to output anologue, which you can plop onto vcr, or whatever?

When you playback or edit the DV AVI file its is decompressed using the MS codec and if you make any changes it will be recompressed using the MS codec. If you output back to the ADVC-100 the decompression from DV to analogue will be done using the Canopus codec.

3) Is the quality ok having been through the canopus codec, and ending up as this ms codec? My main use for this is editing to/from anlogue camcorder, capturing old vhs and converting to dvd via tmpgenc encoders. I also want the flexibility of the dv option for when I upgrade my camcorder.

There can be some loss of quality recompressing using the MS codec. This is why you often see recomendations for the MainConcept DV codec. It will do a better job than the MS one.

I have an ADVC-100 and it gets a strong reccomendation from me.


Cheers,

David.