Totally Confused Now : Premiere + which firewire card?

[KevinG]

After searching this forum (over and over again using different search strings) and scouring the net, I still have no idea what Firewire card I can use with Premiere. The only ones I can find have Premiere packaged with the card. As I already have Premiere, why do these manufacturers insist that I buy it again?

I have been trying to do video capturing of 8MM tape using the Matrox G400-TV to later encode to VCDs or SVCDs that will be played on my Pioneer 525 DVD player.

I already have MSP6 and Premiere 5.1cI prefer to use Premiere as I find the mpeg encoder Premiere plug-ins better IMO.

I have just purchased a Sony DCR-TRV900 to start using DV and I am now in need of an firewire card for this. I hope to use the analog in from my 8mm camcorder to continue creating cds from the old tapes.

Can anyone recommend a firewire card that is compatible with Premiere 5.1c?

Can I also use the Matrox G400-TV as my hardware overlay for previewing?

Totally lost in this,
Kevin

[wkulecz]

You need to wait for Premiere 6 for the cheap OHCI firewire cards to work. Bundled cards come with drivers for their non-OHCI firewire cards.

You can buy a Canopus DV Raptor un-bundled and download the drivers for Premiere 5.1c, but this is still much more expensive than an OHCI card like the ADS Pyro.

--wally.

[KevinG]

I have not seen the unbundled DVRaptor.

Can you tell me where you found this?

Would the DVRaptor be better for using WITHIN Premiere? Like for Device control for capturing and playback to tape?

That's all I found in the Premiere forums.

[wkulecz]

The "unbundled" Raptor was offered at either www.videoguys.com or www.sharbor.com, I'm not 100% sure. I assume its still available.

--wally.

[AVminor]

I did not think that the ADS Pyro was a true OCHI compliant card.

[wkulecz]

I've no idea what "true OHCI" is supposed to imply but my operational definition is: if it works with the MS drivers in Windows 2000 and Win98se and WinME then its OHCI.

--wally.

[johnpr98]

I did not think that the ADS Pyro was a true OCHI compliant card.

The Raptor isn't (AFAIK)

johnpr98
http://www.johnpr98.com

[KevinG]

Originally posted by johnpr98:

The Raptor isn't (AFAIK)

johnpr98
http://www.johnpr98.com

Is this a bad thing?
Should I buy the DVRaptor card?

[johnpr98]

I already have MSP6 and Premiere 5.1cI prefer to use Premiere as I find the mpeg encoder Premiere plug-ins better IMO.

Have you used the MSPro 6 Mpeg advanced settings?

[wkulecz]

If you don't plan to run windows 2000 or use firewire hard drives and other periperials (scanners, CD-R, etc. if and when available) then being OHCI is not important if the DV drivers are good. The Raptor has good drivers and is probably the best solution if you want premiere and win9x.

I don't think "true OHCI" is a function of the card but lays out the functions a driver must support, functions which are more general and go beyond just DV to make firewire a general purpose interface like SCSI. I know of two drivers (NEC and TI) built into windows 2000 and Win98SE (any more in ME?) The NEC driver appears to have problems so if you've a firewire card based on the NEC firewire chip you are at the mercy of the vendor to provide working drivers. Orange Micro appears to have working drivers for their NEC base firewire cards. Don't know about anyone else.

--wally.

[KevinG]

Originally posted by johnpr98:

Have you used the MSPro 6 Mpeg advanced settings?

I have been following this forum for over a year now. I have been trying to get my 8mm tapes transferred to VCD (also SVCD) using Premiere and MSP6. I have tried the ini file setting to allow the advanced options. Is this what you mean? And wasn't this option workaround removed in a later update for MSP6.0?

I tried the setting but I was not very impressed when I compared it to Panasonic's plugin for Premiere. Maybe it is just the quality of my captures.
Trying to save me much time, I have been looking for quality comparisons. It seems that the plugins you can get that will produce the better quality (so far) are all for Premiere.
What would you recommend for rendering MPEG1 and MPEG2?

In trying to get the best quality, I just purchased a Sony DCR-TRV900 DV camcorder. My wife wants to kill me. I just hope I get to keep the camcorder and computer when she divorces after the bill comes

Well, now I need a firewire card to go with this. I already have a Matrox G400-TV for the analog captures.

I am very much an amateur to NLE and I would be very appreciative and open for any suggestions.

And please, no D8 vs. DV wars again. My eyes still hurt from those threads.

Kevin



[This message has been edited by KevinG (edited 27 November 2000).]

[AVminor]

Some proprietary fire wire cards work with specific programs to claim better results than "generic" OHCI cards.

The Digital Origin stuff comes to mind... they claim that their proprietary Moto-DV card is better than a standard OHCI card -- works with a slower speed CPUs (as low as 200 mhz) and fewer dropped frames. However, the card only works with their software.

Digital Origin claims on their website that you can't run a generic OHCI card with anything less than a 400mhz CPU and even then you still might drop frames.

I know a lot of Marvel users are running systems with CPUs below 400mhz. I'd be curious to hear if anyone reading this has used an OCHI card successfully with CPUs lower than 400mhz.

Not sure if the other intro kits on market do this. Pinacle's might be proprietary.
Not sure if Dazzle's is proprietary or
generic OHCI (it does use a TI chipset, though.)

Could be that the version of Ulead VideoStudio SE in the Dazzle DV-Editor package is rigged to work only with that card. Not sure if the bundled software would recognize another generic OHCI card.

In fact, not sure what Ulead did to brain- damage their software to warrant calling it an SE version.

[fluggo99]

Touch thou not Digital Origin stuffs, lest thou wishest for a pain in thy rear.

Generic OHCI is the way to go, IMO. Digital Origin's claim that they need 400MHz power probably stems from the lagging market support for Type 1 DV, which is the standard appetite of OHCI cards. To make up for this lack of support requires some extra clock cycles on behalf of the CPU.

The whole situation is a mess, and I've found that OHCI has been the most stable DV setup I've run. No proprietary drivers or $$$$ tech support like Digital Origin. I have no experience with Canopus, but they certainly could be no worse. With MSP6 and the coming Premiere 6, hopefully we can forget proprietary cards altogether. (Unless you're snooty and want the RT2000. )

[KevinG]

Let me just start by saying thanks for everyone's help.

Well, I bit the bullet and bought the DvRaptor RS (no Premiere software) from http://www.videoguys.com .

I was a little bit worried because after I ordered it, I did not get any order confirmation and details of shipping. I ordered it Monday afternoon and paid for 2nd day UPS here (New Jersey, USA). I figured it would be here by Wednesday afternoon sometime. The following morning (Tuesday), I still did not receive an email with this info but I was pleasantly surprised when the UPS truck pulled up in Tuesday AM. One day early! Can't beat that. Another funny thing. The email with the order info and tracking number came Tuesday afternoon.

Tuesday night, the board got installed and the software loaded. All this in under an hour. The G400-TV took me 5 hours under WinME. Device control using the DvRaptor is amazing to me. I just might have to dup the analog tapes to dv first just to use this feature before I make my VCD/SVCDs.

I did have a total system lockup when I tried to play a 2 minute dv captured avi using the DvRaptor Video software.
Another problem I also had was that the DvRaptor software said that the camcorder is 'disconnected' now when it actually always was.
I have not performed any of the tweaks in WinME that are recommended so this might not be a problem right now with the card (or the Marvel G400-TV).

And I really like my new Sony DCR-TRV900. Leaps ahead of my analog 8mm. Goodbye dropped frames.

Before I jump up and down cheering success, I still have to get these two cards working in Premiere 5.1c properly.

I'm all liquored up Doc! Where do I start first?


This is going to be fun!
Kevin