Software grabbing with Marvel G400 Tv: Is it possible?

[Frodo 9fingers]

Subject almost says it all:

I'm the owner of a Matrox Marvel G400 Tv and I want to grab Tvsignals in realtime Mpeg2 instead of MJpeg.

I have tried trialversions of both Power VCR and WinDvr. Unfortunaly both programs gives the message, that no capture hardware could be found.

The system is running on Win XP and I use the Adis drivers and videotools in latest versions, and all seems to work, however capture looks horrible with heavy interlace.

I could go back to Win98 SE if nessesary, the main purpose of the machine recording and playing videofiles, DVD and Mp3 music streamed from my internal fileserver.
It wouldn't make my life misserably to go back to Win 98SE

I really really want to capture directly in MPeg2. Films really do suffer qualityloss when converted to MPeg2 from MJpeg especially when captured from arial antenna.
Capture in win 98SE and in MJpeg has always been close to perfect, but transcoding into MPeg2 leaves a lot behind to wish for.

Can it be done, or do I have to invest in a capture card like The Haupage PVR 350.

The system in question is a AMD Thunderbird 1200 MHz on an Asrock K7VT2 mainboard, 256 Mb SD-Ram, Matrox Marvel G400 Tv Graphic card and Asus E616 DVD-rom - OS is Win XP Pro

Audio and Lan is onboard

[Adis]

You can capture directly to mpeg1/2 with Ulead MediaStudio Pro 6/6.5/7

[Frodo 9fingers]

Thank you very much!
I'll try out the program right away.
But it's kind of expensive piece of software.

Just another thing!
I found the online manual for the Marvel G400 Tv graphic card and by reading it I came across, that there should be a VIDCAP driver present within the original Matrox drivers for Win 98 to use with 3. party software. I haven't been able to locate this driver within my new Adis drivers.
Is this Vidcap driver present within the Adis drivers?
And If, how to find them and tweak them for 3.party software

And thank you for the great work creating these drivers for the G400 card.
Matrox should be ashamed for not doing so themselves.

[bubu]

Frondo,

My system is PenIII 1.3G with 512MB ram, Win2000 SP3, with adis' Videotool installed for My marvel G400TV. 2X40GB HDD are hooked up on RAID 0 for capturing.

Direct capture to MPEG2 via Video Studio 6, works in this setup... but I have about 1% frame drop, and Image quality isn't really any better than MJPEG captured and transcoded to MPEG2 video files.

Besides, one annoying thing is everytime I start to capture the video via Video Studio, I have to make sure that video source RGB16bit and framesize compatible to MPEG2 standard (DVD quality).. somehoe the setting doesn't get momorized by video studio. and making DVD with captured DVD compatible MPEG2files takes as much as time as making DVD with MJPEG files, which was disappointing because I wanted to save time to create a DVD by capturing into MPEG2 files.

Color control is modest at best (tint/ hue/ saturation)...

I am upgrading my system to P4 2.4Ghz pretty soon in hope that frame drop rate and transcoding time will improve...

Let us know if you are happy with the result you get from MPEG2 capturing. Ciao!

[Debbie]

I have been capturing directly to mpeg using Ulead Media Studio and Video Studio, however the results are, in my opinion, not all that good.

It will be far better to capture in MJPG and later convert to mpeg. TMPGEnc gives exelent results.

In my opinion it is better to spend some more time and finish with a better product than an "instant" mediocracy.

Debbie

[Fred H]

If you try to edit MPEG1/2 in MSP Video Editor, it is a pain to wait when you’re scrubbing the timeline or try to Instantplay the clip. My 1.3 GHz CPU and 512 MB DDR is not enough for it.
If you have enough HD space, capture MJPEG. PIC Video is superb to do the job.
I capture with AVI_IO in 2 GB segments.
It’s easy to encode the final video to MPEG1/2 with the TMPGEnc. It works while you are sleeping and you’ll get a nice MPEG2 in the morning.

Fred H

[bubu]

I don't do much editing so video studio is just fine for me. What bugs me most is the time I have to spend on encoding... capture it in MJPG, cut/paste them to the length I want, and encode... Encoding to MPEG2 files from MJPEG files can take six hours or more for 70 -90 minute length video on 1.3Ghz machine.

Like Fred says, if letting it run overnight, it will be done, but all the fans and HDD running inside the case, I cannot sleep while my PC is busy processing the files! (I live in a studio apartment)

If I can capture directly Mpeg2 file, and using smart rendering after cut/paste files, I think I can reduce the encoding time tremendeously. I can turn off my PC at my bedtime....THat is what I want!!

[Fred H]

The best way to find out which method is the best for you is TRYING.
Do a short capture; say 5 minutes in MJPEG and MPEG 2. Go two or tree different ways to get the wanted format and take the time in each way.
I can say that even the smart render and the creation of a new file to MPEG2 takes long time.
There are always small differences between the captured format and the output format or project settings, which causes long (smart) rendering time.
Cut/past = editing. They modify the captured clips and some rendering is a must. Rendering takes time.

Good luck!

Fred H

[Frodo 9fingers]

So far I'm testing and trying out the Ulead mediaStudio Pro 7,0 and it seems to give very reasonable results.
Until now, best result has been achieved by using Mpeg1 CIF PAL 352x288 in YUY2. Of cause best result came along with DVD PAL settings (704x 580) but with 6 Gb used pr hour it's not really an option. Mpeg1 YUY2 CIF PAL 352x288 uses approx. 1 Gb pr hour. or 4834 Mb/sec.
Compared to Mjpeg capture with best settings and 25 pics/sec and Transcoding with both Ligos and TEMPGenc+ and Morgan and PIC studio MJpeg Codecs the endresult is equal or slightly better than MJpeg + transcoding, when captured from digital satelite signal. When captured from arial antenna It's way better - the analog distortions really don't agree with the transcoding into Mpeg 2 from MJpeg.
Capture with both VCD PAL and DVD Pal settings in YUY2 Gives only 7 to 11 lost frames in the first ½ second of capture and then no lost frames.
I have dabbled a bit with user defined settings with Mpeg2 bitrate 2300 and RBG 24 bitrate. but that only gave me 16 % dropped frames, however picture quality looked very fine. Unfortunally the hardware (Matox G400 Vidcap drivers) does not support SVCD Mpeg2 480x572 which would have been fine for direct viewing on a DVDplayer. Of Cource VCD gives the same option but with lesser pic. quality. I'm confident that given time, I'll tweak the program to deliver better quality without dropped frames.
I have one issue though.
For some reason the sound seems more or less slightly distorted when capture is replayed. The sound is captured with default settings (44.100 HZ, stereo and a bitrate of 224 Kb/s) During capture sound is ok through the computer. Only replay is affected.
I haven't been able to find out how to tweak recording settings yet, The audio options button is dimmed out.
Tips and tricks would be greatly appreciated.

One last thing. The Ulead MediaStudio Pro 7,0 does not come cheap. I'm using a 30 days full trialversion, and when it runs out, it will be missed, but for less than half the price I can buy a Hard and softwarebundle that probably will do a better job. ( The Haupage PVR350)
Ulead should make a software that only provided grabbing to a lesser price.

[bubu]

for sound being distorted, did you check input line level, which might be too loud when recorded. Check your PC's audio device configuration (recording level on Line in) that you can access from control panel

I noticed the source videos vary the level of sound. Everytime I capture something, I have to be careful the recording level.

Frodo, what is your system configuration? I am upgrading my PC to P4 2.4 or Athlon 2600+ x2, and hoping to see frame drop rate will go down...

[Debbie]

If you want to have the minimum number of droped frames you must have a good cipset and also good RAM. Some RAM that is on the market (unbranded) is pure junk. VIA cipset can cause problems.

Debbie

[Frodo 9fingers]

My system configuration for that particulary PC is AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1,2 GHz, Asrock K7VT2 motherboard (VIA KT266A, one of the better VIA chipsets) 256 Mb Kingston SD PC133 ram (they can be changed to DDR Pc2100 ram), Seagta Baracuda IV 40 Gb harddisk, MAtrox Marvel G400 Tv. Soundcard and LAN is onboard.

When recording in YUY2 VCD PAL 352 x 288, I drop no frames exept for 7 -11 frames at the start up.
I'll try to adjust recording level some more in hope to reduce sound destortion to a minimum.

[Fred H]

You will need another HD for video capture and rendering.
A single HD is not enough for video. And, it must be a separate phisical HD, not a second partition.

Fred H

[Frodo 9fingers]

I do not agree with One single harddisk should not be enough!
For High quality video capturing and rendering, yes one better use RAID 0, but for capturing from TV and satelite signals one disk is sufficiant.
I have captured entire films lossless in MJpeg with maximum settings for 25 Pics./sec with my Marvel G400 Tv on a PIII 600 MHz computer, 256 Mb of ram, a single 5500 RPM Maxtor 30 Gb harddisk and Win98 SE.
A film in these settings take up to 12 Gb of harddrive space, and not at single frame was dropped.

Any harddisk large enough can manage to write down 12 Gb of data within the time it takes to record the film.

[bubu]

for the sound distortion problem, also check the level of output from your video source.. (some machine can have control over line-out sound level)

I have to say that posts by Debbie and Fred have some points but they are not crucial or determinable factor for succcessful capturing. It all depends on various factors.

You can have a good quality no brand memory sticks, and one single harddrive can be just fine for capturing.

Or vise versa, you can have frame drops even with RAID0 UDMA133 drives with brand name memory. (such was the case for me)