Digital Camcorders - MiniDV vs D8 shootout?

[Graham Meredith]

Hi, I'm just about ready to consider buying my first digital video camera. I don't much at all about them, so I'd love to hear as much advice as possible on the subject. In everyone's opinions, what are the pros/cons with Digital 8 format and miniDV format? Which produces best results, and which is destined to die a death similar to the VHS/Beta stuggle that happened to video recorders? I'm looking to buy perhaps 2nd hand, in the amateur price range (< $2000 new price). Any model/brand recommendations? What are the specific cons to look for in buying 2nd hand digital? I have a G400TV for analog capture - do the digital cameras have analog outputs that I can use with it while I save for a DV card? What about firewire stuff?
I hope as many people as possible can throw their two cents in to this thread I'd like to absorb as much as possible on the subject.

Graham

[Dr Mordrid]

minDV will deliver better quality but at a higher cost for both the cam and tapes (for now).

In the under $2000 miniDV group I'd recommend the Canon Elura. It's small, light and has a ton of neat features. It also delivers great images.

Dr. Mordrid

[This_Idiot]

Hi Graham,

Models and specs do vary across the globe, which helps to make life a little more interesting. My reading is that Sony introduced D8 as a crossover between their existing 8 and Hi-8 formats and the upcoming Mini-DV technology. Because they didn't have to redesign the whole shooting match (ie transport) and because they were already up to bulk production of a large proportion of the components (casings, transports, etc), they could undercut the mini-dv opposition substantially, and therefore a) delay bulk sales of the opposition's mini-DV, b) dump a whole load of cheap (due to existing bulk production) units and c) convert rapidly-aging technology into ready cash. Nice move !

You'll already see that Sony also have mini-DV units for sale (at much higher prices), which should tell you that Sony don't see D8 lasting for much longer now that the competition have got mini-DV unit costs down. In fact, when I bought my own DV last spring, I bought a Canon MV200 mini-DV for very little more than a D-8 model. And I'm very happy with it.

I'd advise against buying secondhand unless you are really up against the wall. Firstly, the technology is still so relatively young that there isn't much available 2nd hand and therefore the prices aren't that low. Secondly, you never know wht you're getting, and repair of any camcorder can be substantially higher than the purchase price of a secondhand unit - especially if you are unlucky enough to buy a unit with knackered heads !

Yes, most (if not all) DV/D8 units have composite (and S-video if you're lucky) outputs which can be captured via a G400. Also, if you keep the G400 in-situ you'll retain the ability to capture composite video (who knows, you may fancy a bit off the telly for backgrounds or whatever) AND the dual-head. You'll be able to drop your favourite flavour of DV capture card alongside the G400 without a problem (probably) - I use a G400 Marvel here with an ADS Pyro, best of both worlds (short of an RT2000).

[wkulecz]

Unless you've got a library of Hi8 tapes you want to capture I'd forget about D8.

I think D8 is a great bridge product, but if you are just getting into the game, skip it.

D8 is no longer a Sony only deal since Hitachi now has two models on the market, so its long term future looks better -- there are a lot of Hi8 owners looking to go digital.

--wally.

[Patrick]

Graham, if you want some laughs as well as some pertinent information, make sure you do a "search" for D8 at this forum. We've had some fun discussions in the past.

If you want to limit the number of threads that come up regarding D8, also put my name in "Search by User Name" during your search for D8 threads. I used to get totally involved in these debates, but now that I'm older and wiser, I can stand on the sidelines and just smile.

[Graham Meredith]

Thanks heaps, guys! This is exactly the sort of things I needed to know. I'm suspecting already, the way prices are dropping, that I'm far better off going for new gear. Looking around in my local pawnbrokers (notorious for charging nearly brand new gear prices on 2nd hand gear) I saw a Canon MiniDV (can't remember the model) for AUS $1000 (about US$500). Going by their pricing policy, the new price mustn't be more than a few hundred $$ on top of that!
I think I might consider MiniDV. Has anyone experienced any particularly bad/difficult to use/unreliable models I should definitely avoid?
Graham

[Jonathan Beilin]

Had my JVC GR-DVL9800u since november, and I am truly happy with it. It's small, has great battery life (works better than specs), a large screen, great color, and it works with $49 TI IEEE1394 card and MSPro and Premiere 6. What more can you want? Eluras are cool, but cost more, have a smaller screen, a really short battery life.

[Hal]

You might check out videographersforum.com. They have three forums on Canon, Sony, and Panasonic. Could read all the old posts. Discussions both on this forum and there helped convince me that miniDV was only way to go. I've got a new Sony VX2000 on the way right now; profeel.com had one of the best prices (at least they ended up with it after I negotiated by pointing out lower prices).

.02 from a beginner
Hal

[Anatoly Neverov]

I advice you to make financial effort and to buy 3CCD camera. You'll be happy for at least nearest 5 years.

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Anatoly Neverov
Minsk, Belarus

[mynx]

I would not purchase a used camcorder. Bad heads are one of the cheapest repairs. The boards are not repairable and cost almost a much as the unit. The mechanisms are almost as expensive. If it was exposed to liquid or sand you can end up with an expensive repair. The newer generation products are a lot more reliable. In that regard the 8mm/Hi=8/D8 mechanism has been around a while and is very reliable. Repair of D8 camcorders is easier and more readily attainable. Mini-DV has better quality. More to the point, try using a few. Everyone is going to like something different.

[This_Idiot]

Well Mynx appears to be our kinda resident Cam expert, so there's a lesson worth learning.

I'm very sceptical about 2nd hand unless you're a bit of a gambler. A mate of mine picked up a very respectable Hi-8 a few years back because the original owner just plain hadn't used it. But for every one of these I'd reckon there are a few chncers who are either passing off stolen kit or know that there's a fault with the cam that is out of warranty.

Oh, I have a Canon MV200 that does the biz for me - up to 32* optical zoom, and so much digital zoom that you need bolt the cam down to a solid floor to avoid shake. 5 second stills onto tape which look good unless you want to make a poster out of them.