The Annual Sound Card Thread!

[Michel Carleer]

Brian,
To support, sort of:
I have a PC with an Asus P3B-F, a Pinnacle PCTV and a SBLive!, and then some more. Under W2K, I am unable to capture (352x288, YUY2, HuffYUV, Virtualdub or AVI_IO) without 5-10% frames dropped, no difference if I record sound at 11kHz 8 bit mono or 44kHz 16 bit stereo. CPU usage is about 20-25%. However, as soon as I switch off audio recording, I don't have one single frame dropped anymore.
OK, now this is more like a support for Doc's theory.
However, last week, I had temporary access to Whistler. Well, exactly the same hardware setup, with the exact same W2K drivers, and there is not one single drop anymore, at any sound capture resolution.
So, let me add that the OS too plays an important role (well, we all know that, don't we?).
Michka

[Michel Carleer]

Brian,
To support, sort of:
I have a PC with an Asus P3B-F, a Pinnacle PCTV and a SBLive!, and then some more. Under W2K, I am unable to capture (352x288, YUY2, HuffYUV, Virtualdub or AVI_IO) without 5-10% frames dropped, no difference if I record sound at 11kHz 8 bit mono or 44kHz 16 bit stereo. CPU usage is about 20-25%. However, as soon as I switch off audio recording, I don't have one single frame dropped anymore.
OK, now this is more like a support for Doc's theory.
However, last week, I had temporary access to Whistler. Well, exactly the same hardware setup, with the exact same W2K drivers, and there is not one single drop anymore, at any sound capture resolution.
So, let me add that the OS too plays an important role (well, we all know that, don't we?).
Michka

[Brian Ellis]

Michka

Of course, you are courageous using W2K and Whistler. I prefer to stick to the tried and tested 98SE. However, when I changed the m/b,
it was with W98, before and after, booted from the same hard disk and without even a re-install (OK, it took several minutes to understand what was happening, auto-reinstalling drivers and whatnot).

However, point taken. Drivers do play one helluva important role, as do the way they interact (both directions) with the O/S.

I now have a reasonably stable NLE system capable of doing full size MJPEG 25 fps capture, editing and so on, with good sound, and I'll be damned if I change anything, including SB Live!, until I'm really forced to, even if Gatesville brings out W2005 next year. Vive le 98SE!

The only exception would be if Linux versions of Marvel, Live! and MS Pro 6 came out!!!! Dream on, Brian.


------------------
Brian (the terrible)

[Sciascia]

I agree with the fact that external sources are the cause of a lot of bad audio, whether it is RF interference form TVs, power cords, bad cables, etc. I do however don't think that these factors would cause dropped frames. As far as the SC knows most of this interference is just audio (primarily AC). As for the higher frequencies, it shouldn't even register since it is outside of their frequency range in almost all cases.

I'm not saying that external sources will not effect your audio quality, I just don't think that it would cause the same type of bandwidth hogging symptoms that PCI cards have become well known for.

I may be mistaken, so don't take this for gospel. Just stating my opinion.

[Michel Carleer]

First, sorry for the double post. Apparently, I had a lot of problems this afternoon (GMT time) to get to the US. Something to do with the ISS-Shuttle docking and NASA-TV net-broadcasting it?

Sciascia,
In my case, the constant background audio noise seems to come from improperly decoupled power supply rails. I can continuously hear the HD activity and the movement of any window on-screen. Even though I use a 350 W power supply. In addition, I can see on the TV picture the interferences coming from the HF generated by the PC itself. These interferences almost completely disappear if I open the box.
My point was that it is commonly accepted that the SBLive is a PCI hog. And I can see it when I go to capture from the PCTV under W2K. But apparently this is not true any more under Whistler, even though I used the same W2K drivers, both for the TV card and the SBLive. Or at least it has far less importance. Maybe MS made some big effort in rewriting their VfW interface.

Now, when I want to do real capture, I use my DV500 and have none of the above problem, as the card captures audio as well as video. So, no sync problem, no PCI hogging, hardware compression to reasonably good quality (DV).
Michka

[Brian Ellis]

Sciascia

Sorry, but I did get hundreds of dropped frames before and quasi-zero after the event (changing the m/b) with both ISA and PCI sound cards. Also, voice recognition improved dramatically with the changeover, so it is not only video that is the problem. Btw, I forgot to mention that I used the same CPU and memory chips before and after, as well.

Personally, I believe that the whole thing about PCI sound cards is a myth because, in modern computers (perhaps not in the very early days of PCI), the ISA slots are governed by a converter chip from the PCI bus, or so I'm told. In other words, there is no longer an independent ISA bus. That makes your ISA a sound card an effective PCI one! The PCI latency timer does affect the ISA slots, as well, although the slow ISA bus data rate makes this difficult to discern.

What is also important is that, IMHO, it will be impossible to find any ISA slots on ANY new computer within a year or two. The trend is already there, mainly for economic and m/b real estate reasons.

------------------
Brian (the terrible)

[mikiem]

I'm in the process of picking a new soundcard, & hope maybe some of the info might be useful - maybe help someone else.

1st off, there's a new card from Hercules with a BOB (rather then a panel like the Live Platinum). Uses the same chip as the Santa Cruz, is cheaper, but there seems a question re: the other circuitry on the Santa Cruz being better.

OTOH, some folks are a bit leary of the programable DSP both use, & whether drivers etc. will be available in the future.

Digidesign offers a free version of Pro Tools, & the docs with that give some info -- such as problems recording with the Live series at less then 48.

Checking out what the audio-only folks use, there seems to be at least 1/2 dozen cards at their *low* end going for around $300 to $400 US; all seem to include BOBs, and some offer daughter cards that speed processing.

In the mean time, whilst waiting for tax refunds & sorting out those digital i/o cards above, I picked up a Guilimott Muse for $30 (hey, I'll stick it in one of the other machines later).

It uses the CMI8738, available on a few different cards, which is a bit processor intensive, but by all reviews & experience seems more then adequate for the price. Distortion & noise seem low enough, though as I think someone mentioned, a PC is a noisy environment anyway when it comes to recording.

mike