Camcorder

[bibble]

Can anyone recommend a good Hard-disc camcorder. We had an old vid8 one several years ago and were thinking of its time to get something. I have seen a couple of JVC ones.

Am I running down the right track of harddisc over DV or should I go with DV as it is more mature?

Feel free to bump this to the correct forum if I have got it wrong. (I actually posted this in the HTPC and HIFI forum the other day but I think that was def the wrong place)

[Jerry Jones]

Have a look at the forthcoming SANYO HD1:

http://tinyurl.com/a3haj

Amazon will let you pre-order:

http://tinyurl.com/c9mhb

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

Mini DV is still better than the current standard definition hard disk or DVD camcorders.

I have the Panasonic VDR-M30 DVD disc camcorder and I'm selling it.

The video colors are quite good for a single chip camcorder, but there is artifacting that a trained eye can detect on certain subjects - usually those with motion.

The JVC hard disk camcorders produce video that isn't outstanding; I know because I asked a fellow who owned one to send me a DVD with clips and the pictures, while decent, didn't really inspire me.

A decent budget DV camcorder is the new Canon ZR500:

http://tinyurl.com/9fmbe

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Brian Ellis]

I agree. Go with mini-DV. Hard disk standard definition cams record in MPEG-2 with a format that is hardly editable, whereas DV25 is easily edited with no visible loss of quality.

[Jerry Jones]

Brian is correct that DV editing is more widely supported by editing software available on the market.

But some software programs do allow you to edit MPEG-2.

Even so, the problem with the standard definition MPEG-2 hard disk and DVD camcorders is that their imaging systems can't yet produce video quality that truly matches the quality that a more mature Mini DV camcorder imaging system can produce.

The standard definition MPEG devices face a very difficult task... they have to be able to encode MPEG-2 "on-the-fly" using encoders built into the hardware.

These encoders are getting pretty good, but they have a much more difficult job than usual.

Usually, one encodes to MPEG-2 after editing Mini DV .avi files and the end result is usually better using Mini DV because you're taking a less compressed format, DV .avi, and then down-converting to MPEG-2 after editing.

While raw MPEG-2 video can be edited, you have to accept the fact that its quality won't be any better and probably won't be as good as the more mature Mini DV format.

I suspect this may gradually change, but the current crop of MPEG-2 standard definition recorders just don't generate a lot of excitement.

I am pretty intrigued by the two new MPEG-4 high definition camcorders that will be coming out this year, however.

The SANYO HD1 records to H.263 MPEG-4 (an older flavor of MPEG-4):

http://tinyurl.com/a3haj

The forthcoming SAMSUNG SC-HDX15 looks really interesting because it encodes directly to the hot new H.264 flavor of MPEG-4 and it can hit both 720p/1080 resolutions.

http://tinyurl.com/7k7dc

I think the software manufacturers, including Ulead, really need to start offering MPEG-4 plug-ins for existing and PREVIOUS versions of software.

There's no reason for users of MediaStudio Pro 7, for example, to have to spend money on upgrading to MediaStudio Pro 8 just to get MPEG-4 editing capability.

Why?

Because Magix Movie Edit Pro version 11...

http://tinyurl.com/8pv7x

...only costs $59.99 and allows for MPEG-4 editing.

So that's going to cause quite a few MediaStudio Pro 7 users to simply snap up the Magix software for editing MPEG-4 and creating HD DVDs.

That's how I see it, anyway.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

By the way, here are links to two clips alleged to be from the SANYO HD1:

http://tinyurl.com/74pcn

http://tinyurl.com/aq48n

They are MPEG-4 files.

They are said to be raw... directly from the camcorder.

I think they're impressive because of their sheer resolution and color handling.

There is some artifacting in the ice cream shot, but that may be due to use of a digital zoom.

I would need to play with this camcorder to make more sense out of it.

I think I might buy one.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[bibble]

cheers guys really helpful as normal. My wife liked the HD JVC ones as I did but as I have read elsewhere today and you have confirmed editing is a pain if not rubbish of mpg2. Most of the stuff we will do is just home-movie/family type stuff but would rather have reasonable quality rather than dross. I was thinking that as DV is far more mature we would be best with that in the end. Jerrold couldnt find Canon ZR500 as I don't think we have that model name over here. Have been looking at Canon MVX250i and MV890. Ever heard of these?

[Jerry Jones]

Those are probably similar models.

If you want to move up in quality, you should also check out the 3CCD Panasonic line:

http://tinyurl.com/ajy27

Here are some basic features that are important to me:

1. both 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratio capability

2. external microphone input

3. headphone jack (to monitor audio while recording)

4. analog input (nice for recording analog VHS recordings to Mini DV digital tape)

And, of course, the CCD quality is probably one of the most important considerations.

Some of the models mentioned earlier don't have all of these features.

In fact, the lower end of the Mini DV lines are being dumbed down from previous years.

The manufacturers, in my opinion, are really dishing out some cheap stuff these days.

Hope this helps,

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

One more tip:

If you do decide to go with a DVD camcorder, then be sure to check out the Sony DCR-DVD403 model.

It is said to produce an image that ranks almost as good as a 3CCD Mini DV camcorder.

Here's the review making that claim:

http://tinyurl.com/dorzg

It appears, however, that Sony is replacing that model with a new model, the DCR-DVD405:

http://tinyurl.com/7lvby

It probably performs as well or better.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net