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**AndrewDV** · 30 May 2001, 13:35

That really is a shame. I kind of liked Matrox's MJPEG for tape to tape projects.

Well, looks like I'll be bypassing Matrox for any further capture cards. Great YUY2 captures can be easily done with other cards (nicest ones have the Conexant 878A Fusion).

At least they gave it a try. I thank them for being open about it.

**KuroNeko** · 30 May 2001, 13:48

Which ones?

The TV cards I tried (which use these Conexant chips) gave terribly noisy captures, way below the quality of 'real' capture cards like the Marvel, DC30+ etc

Neko

**Dr Mordrid** · 30 May 2001, 14:11

If you carefully read Haigs note you'll get the implication that the problem is with Zorans HARDWARE MJPeg and Windows2000 themselves.

1. The Zoran MJPeg chip on these cards was designed for Video for Windows. VfW is only supported in Win2K by way of a WDM-to-VfW translation layer, and this layer doesn't work properly. It didn't work in Win98, it was kinda fixed in Win98SE and has been broke in Win2K since day one as regards analog video capture.

2. Therefore, in order to develop a working set of drivers for the Zoran MJPeg chipset win2K you have to develop a DirectShow filter for it. This is far different than WinNT drivers which use Win9x style Video for Windows and not Win2K's DirectShow, so that comparison is not valid.

3. Zoran doesn't support their product very well since they do not offer a DirectShow SDK for Win2K, which means Matrox was stuck trying to reverse engineer one themselves that would work with their hardware. Obviously it didn't work.

Fortunately the most potentially useful feature will be there in the Win2K drivers: native YUY2 capture support. This will allow any manner of soft MJPeg (or most other codecs) to be used.

To be honest about it I haven't used the Matrox hardware MJPeg for anything but betaing in many months.

YUY2 + PICVideo MJPeg delivers better results anyhow since it can do higher data rates. YUY2 + HuffYUV gives small enough files to capture on a single hard drive and encodes to very nice MPEG's in MSPro6 + the DVD Plugin. Add NTFS and you're set.

Dr. Mordrid

[This message has been edited by Dr Mordrid (edited 30 May 2001).]

**sergiovalentino** · 30 May 2001, 14:20

I agree with Doc for what concern the others mjpg codec. I'm using successifully Morgan in win 2k. Tryied PicVideo, but minor results.
At this point my question is: does the other mjpg codec use hardware chip or they work totally in soft mode using cpu?

**This_Idiot** · 30 May 2001, 14:23

For a full rundown on Haigs posting, and my own response to it go check www.desktopvideoworld.co.uk . I'll be bringing you updates via the news page as I hear about developments.

**AndrewDV** · 30 May 2001, 15:39

KuroNeko,

The latest generation of Hauppage cards have the ability to make excellent captures. The older cards were based off of the bt848 and bt/Conexant 878 chipsets (Brooktree was purchased by Conexant). I have had 2 cards based off of those chips and agree that they were not very good. The tuners were not good at all, nor were the captures.

Recently, I setup a simple system with a WinTV-Radio. It had the updated Conexant 878A Fusion chipset along with the same Phillips tuner as the G450-eTV. After some simple toying around, I purchased one for my own use. Doing some experimentation, I found that it can capture SVideo up to 720x480 YUY2 using various codecs without a drop.

I read a lot of Doc M's posts. He pointed out PIC MJPEG. Having real-estate to burn, captures with this codec are fantastic! The VCDs/SVCDs created from these captures are clean!

At the same time, my Marvel was getting "green flashes," stutters, and other baddies in captures. The YUY2 ability was not making me happy. I chalked that up to something with VIA. The cost of the WinTV card was negligible to rebuilding a system.

There are other WinTVs that have the same chipsets. Just last week, I setup a home-office system with a WinTV-Go + FM. It's great! It costed about $60. The quality is really nice. I really like having acces to programs like DScaler. Using WinDVR, it works as a nice recording device.

Others have the WinTV-Theater, which is the same card but with Dolby Surround support. Users seem to be happy with that as well.

As for other "real" cards, I tried the DC10+, DC30+, DVCI/DVCII, and the PVR. I just can not justify the inflexibility/cost for these setups to produce VCDs and SVCDs. The simplistic nature of using the WinTV + AVI_IO + TMPGEnc works so well for me.

[This message has been edited by AndrewDV (edited 30 May 2001).]

**AndrewDV** · 30 May 2001, 15:41

duplicate post

[This message has been edited by AndrewDV (edited 30 May 2001).]

**gibverse** · 30 May 2001, 16:19

Andrew,
Can you recommend specific WinTV's to go for and avoid. Tomorrow is payday for me, and a WinTV Theater w/ remote would be a nice way to drown out Matrox's driver problems.

Thanks,
John

**wkulecz** · 30 May 2001, 16:29

As to Hauppauge WinTV's too many variations, buy from a place with a good return policy. You'll know right away if you've got a good one or not.

--wally.

**AndrewDV** · 30 May 2001, 18:01

Listen to wkulecz, it is good advice.

The WinTV-Theater is a newer card, so component problems should be minimum. What you want to do is:

-Check the card in the static protective package for the "878A Fusion" markings on a chip. Also, make sure you have the Phillips tuner.

-If you want the latest and greatest, download latest drivers, applets, AND WinTV2000 application from Hauppage's site (important, the WinTV2000 application installs the basic codecs). Their site looks like it was written by an Engineer , so it is not too clean looking. IMHO, only do this after you feel comfortable with the card or are having some issues.

-Install card in its own IRQ. This is also when you want to hook up the pass-through sound cable, IR port, cable, and FM antenna.

-If you are installing drivers from the CD, let Windows/Win2K pick them off of the disc. Otherwise, cancel out of the plug and play detection and run the downloaded file.

-Install the rest of the applications.

-Launch the WinTV2000 application. Setup the card in here (NTSC_M, PAL, etc.). Check the TV Reception. If there are some wavy lines it, double and triple check the settings.

The installed TV applications are kind of clutsy. However, I think the Theater has a better app with it. The FM stereo software is nice and easy.

For capture, I use either AVI_IO or MSP6 Pro. For deinterlaced viewing, I use a freeware product called DScaler (http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/). This is a really nice program.

If you really want to play around, check out the various DVR products. I'm going to say to read about these before using them. Each one has its pluses and minuses.

Most important, take your time and play with the basic card features first. Get it setup, then start installing 3rd party apps at your whim. Also, spend some time on the Hauppage site. They maintain some FAQs as well as apps written by users.

Finally, do not go crazy swapping cards around. Just make sure you are not sharing an IRQ. If you are having problems, change the PCI slot. This thing works or it doesn't.

[This message has been edited by AndrewDV (edited 31 May 2001).]

**Frankie G** · 30 May 2001, 18:26

Why no YUY2 support on the G200?

FM · 31 May 2001, 01:50

Does it mean it will be impossible to capture to MJPEG even in AVI_IO and VirtualDub?

**Jkun** · 31 May 2001, 02:05

Andrew,

I can see why you're resonably happy with the Hauppauge cards.

I'm not, for 2 reasons (even the new ones!)

1. PAL. Hauppauge doesn't know it well and their PAL captures are poor (experience from WinTV PVR, a horrible POS)

2. Noise. Sorry, but even the most recent TV cards are way too noisy for my tastes. See www.avsforum.com, the HTPC forum. They use a program called D-scaler for deinterlacing video to feed to projectors. Most quality issues with it are hardware based: cheap TV cards based on Conexant chips. Way too noisy.

Especially since I mainly want to encode to MPEG2, my source (grab card) should be as noisefree as possible, and definitely not start adding more noise.

Mind you, this is probably not an issue with the Conexant chips, but with the cheaply designed and manufactured TV cards.

A good capture card would be dedicated to that task, not a standard consumer TV card.

Just wondering if there's such a beast in the pro market? Maybe those streaming cards for servers?

J-kun

**AndrewDV** · 31 May 2001, 05:09

Hi,

I took a look at the Ospry 200 web page. As I like to experiment, it looked interesting. The cost is a bit high at $179. Do you know of 'hands-on' reviews or detailed info?

Thanks

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Final word from Haig on Win2k VT

Final word from Haig on Win2k VT

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