G450eTV/MSPro6 and 3rd party codecs

[Nick Piercey]

Just a quick question or two guys…

G450eTV and PIC Codec

I’m still interested in a G450eTV… I’ve got a P3 850 and a couple of speedy Maxtors, so capturing via AVI_IO and PIC codec shouldn’t be a problem, but will I be able to play the resulting files out to tape from the MSPro6 timeline with minimal rendering?

G450eTV and MSPro6

Over in Matrox Graphics Tech Support Forum, Haig says about MSPro6, “the only drawback is that it won't see our mpeg codec when you go to render the final clip.”

Is there a way around this so PC-VCR recorded clips can be played without rendering from the timeline?


As ever,


Many thanks,


Nick.

[Nick Piercey]

Hi Guys,


Just knocking this back up to the top.


Would appreciate your help, particularly with the first question. I've tried exporting a PIC video file to tape from the timeline in MSPro6 using my current RRS, but it's a no go, it only exports Matrox mjpeg's...


Regards,


Nick.

[AndrewDV]

Hi,

Sorry that I did not see this. I just went through the hoops on the same problem. It is not an easy solution.

Every AVI file has a header in it. In there is a code called the 'FourCC.' This tells Windows which codec to use for playback. Matrox uses a 'dmb1' FourCC while PIC uses 'mjpg.' The DVDMax feature requires a 'dmb1' compatible FourCC for it to play through the TVOut.

The other option for playback is forced overlay. Some players, like WMP, do this. Unfortunately, they do not offer seamless playback. To complicate matters, AVI_IO does not use forced overlay for playback.

However, there are ways through this maze. So far, here are options that have worked for me:

-Playback through Win2K on a drive formatted with NTFS. You can create one large AVI and send it through WMP. This works, but is only good if you are currently running Win2K or NT4.

-Edit the AVI header so the FourCC is 'dmb1.' Not as terrible as you think. There are tools, like AVIC and UltraEdit, that do this for you. Be very careful doing this. Make copies of your work and read about the FourCC to gain an understanding of what is going on.

-Reencode to Matrox MJPEG. Yes, it seems odd after doing everything in PIC MJPEG, but it'll get you to tape. As long as the capture quality is high, you can then use your PIC files for excellent VCD/SVCD.

-Set the DualHead as a 2nd desktop. Run AVI_IO in it in full screen mode. This takes some tweaking, but it'll look about 99% as good as DVDMax.

Well, hope this helps. I'm sure others have run into the same situation. Hopefully, they'll add their input.



[This message has been edited by AndrewDV (edited 01 June 2001).]

[LvR]

Hi Nick

You are correct about the hardware mjpeg codec not being available on the eTV 450.

I have been lucky? - I used to run a G400 Marvel under W2K using both the Picvideo and Morgan Mjpeg codecs with great results direct to TVout without any conversion from the timeline in MSP6 and VS4 as well as VS5

But

I will be damned if I can do the same with the 450 eTV under W2K. All 3 applications have on some occasions produced tv outputs direct from the timeline - I have never been able to reliably say "AAH - that must be the settings to guarantee TVout to work". I am just about guaranteed NOT to have TVout from the timeline whenever I hit play

If a standard recipy exist I would also like the author to post it somewhere if he/she does not mind

PCVCR,AVI_IO and Virtualdub YUY2 captured clips seems to be much happier with VS4 and VS5 - I can output directly there without a hassle - MSP6 is wonky once again
------------------
Lawrence

[This message has been edited by LvR (edited 01 June 2001).]

[Nick Piercey]

Thanks Andrew for you reply.


Now I’m not sure whether this is going to make sense….

Here goes.

Clearly the G400TV playback of PIC video files from the timeline is a problem, because the G400 is expecting Matrox mjpeg files, but the G450eTV does not have a hardware mjpeg codec and therefore would it still be looking for the “dmb1” header?

As the G450eTV can record using a variety of software codecs, surely it should be able to play them back successfully with the bundled software (VS4)(and hopefully MSPro6).


I hope I’ve explained myself clearly.


Thanks,


Nick.

[Nick Piercey]

Thanks guys for the replies.

AndrewDV… do you have a G400TV or just a G400? Does this make a difference, as Lawrence seems to have had success?

So… we have direct output to tape with G400TV/PIC codec/Win2k/MSPro6 timeline, but it’s hit or miss with G450eTV/PIC codec/Win2k/MSPro6.

Can anyone please confirm or deny G450eTV/PIC codec/Win9x/MSPro6 timeline playback to tape?

Sounds like a job for “The Doc”!!!!!

Are you there, Doc!


(Pauses for what seems only an instant… and then, as if by magic, The Doc appears below!)

[Nick Piercey]

Hi Andrew/Lawrence,

Just knocking this back up to the top to say

a) Thanks to The Doc, again.


b) It seems that what we strive for is possible.


http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum2/HTML/006473.html


Regards,


Nick.


P.S. Perhaps The Doc has never seen "Mr Benn"!

[Dr Mordrid]

Mr Benn??

Anyhow, whenever I use PICVideo captures on the timeline I create a custom project profile in MSPro with PICVideo defined as the default compression. That way PICVideo gets used for timeline playback and its MJPG fourCC isn't an issue.

If PICVideo is "Codec enabled" in its settings it'll also play Matrox's DMB1 encoded files smoothly from the timeline.

Dr. Mordrid


[This message has been edited by Dr Mordrid (edited 06 June 2001).]

[Nick Piercey]

Mr Benn?

UK Children's cult TV character....


http://www.doc-h.demon.co.uk/bennset.htm should explain the "as if by magic" reference.

Thanks, Doc, once agan, I've ordered a G450etV via the Matrox shop so if all is not well I can sling it back to them within 30 days for a refund.

Best wishes,

Nick.

P.S. Any thoughts on the G450eTV/MSPro6 compatibility problem. Haig did say over at the Tech Forum that in the future they "may" be able to make the mpeg2 encoder available to third party capture programs.

[This message has been edited by Nick Piercey (edited 06 June 2001).]

[Rob100]

Lawrence,

>I have been lucky? - I used to run a G400
>Marvel under W2K using both the Picvideo
>and Morgan Mjpeg codecs with great results
>direct to TVout without any conversion from
>the timeline in MSP6 and VS4 as well as VS5

What resolution and compression/quality setting did you use with Picvideo when playing straight from timeline using MSP6?

[Dr Mordrid]

It'll take moving the eTV's MPEG-2 functionality out of the PCVCR program proper and into a DirecShow filter to make things work with editing software. Here's hoping....

I most often use Q=19 when working with Matrox MJPeg files, but if I'm capturing with PICVideo I use Q=20 to get the best results. This setting will often take you up to 5-8 mb/s if the content warrants.

As for MSPro6, something new is coming and it ain't the DVD Plugin....

Dr. Mordrid


[This message has been edited by Dr Mordrid (edited 09 June 2001).]

[LvR]

Rob 100

Just as the good doctor said :

Quality 19 or 20
Pal - 704x576 as well as 352x576 and 352x288

Morgan I used to run around 80% if I remember correctly
Lawrence

[This message has been edited by LvR (edited 09 June 2001).]

[Rob100]

Hmm... I can't sucessfully play PicVideo MJPEG Q20 704x576 files straight from timeline without stuttering at some point.

More investigation I think...

[LvR]

So you thought I was only only kidding when I said I was lucky?

------------------
Lawrence

[Nick Piercey]

Hi guys,

Here’s my take on things.


Firstly, I’m not very impressed with the mpeg2 quality of the G450 eTV however, that’s not what I got it for!

Rob – I also can’t playback from the timeline (VS4 or MSPro6) without slight stutters. However, playing straight from Media Player 6.4 appears smooth albeit after a stutter or two in the first second.

Lawrence – For timeline output on MSPro6 go to Dual Head properties, untick Dual Head options/Apply/retick/Apply this causes my monitor to flicker and, I assume, reset. I then get timeline out to TV. You may have to do this every time. I’ve not had to use this trick for VS4, though… strange.

What are the ideal advanced settings for PIC. If I record at Q20 my buffers fill up within a minute (I’ve got a P3 850 and AVI_IO).If, however, I set the “Luminance, Chrominance” from 0, 0 to 0, 1 everything is fine.

What about the other settings: subsampling, 2 fields if… , swap decompress fields etc.?

The main problem though is the stuttering from timeline playback, which kind of renders the whole shooting match useless if I can’t get that sorted.

Regards,


Nick.

PS: Rob – I’ve used a JVC 9500 for a couple of years. VHS/SVHS/S–video in and out/NTSC playback/insert editing. Cost £400, but I’m sure they’re cheaper now.

PPS: Doc – you’re such a tease!