Faster-Than-Expected Phase-Out of Picture Tube TVs

[KvHagedorn]

Hey, you're catching on!

Thanks a lot.

That article is like every other in that it is smugly self-assured that its strident prose is absolute truth. Most magazine articles take that same tone. In reality, what it does is convince people that it's OK to buy absolute shit quality stuff, since it's all the same.

There are truths and half-truths there, like everywhere else. The "golden ear lie" is exactly the opposite of what I have to tell most people. Why? Because they have become swayed by crap like that article and opinions like yours that the whole industry is a scam. I have to deal with getting people to buy something decent rather than some utter piece of shit from you-know-where, because they tell me they don't have "golden ears" and can't tell the difference. Um, YES, YOU CAN! You DO have a reason to buy decent quality gear. And by decent quality I mean a Yamaha receiver over a $99 special or a $600 pair of B&Ws over a $600 acoustimass piece of crap. The biggest lie in the audio industry is truly the Bose corporation, but people can't write articles denigrating them or they would be sued.

[Brian Ellis]

But the Bose scam has been revealed many times, e.g., http://liquidtheater.com/editorial_56.html

And no way does that article suggest that a $150 system is good. You are jumping to conclusions that aren't there. If you read this thread, you will find I prone amplis that cost a LOT of money, as DC-coupled Class A ones don't grow on trees. If I remember correctly, I paid somewhere equivalent to about $500 for mine and that was about 15 years ago: and it's enormous by today's standards. I also have a sliding AB Sony ampli (~$250, same age) and the quality is not as good. I do not have a Golden Ear, whatever that means, and my treble hearing is now shot down to about 7 kHz max, but I know what good reproduction is all about.

[KvHagedorn]

Do you deal with average Joes every day who are affected by the sort of attitude this article propagates? No? Thank you. It is they who jump to those conclusions, and I do see it every day.

[Jon P. Inghram]

I think perhaps we are not all on the same page: when I think "audiophile" I mean $500 power cords, CD demagnetizers, and the like. I don't mean just buying a decent amplifier and a set of good speakers and placing them properly in a room to get good sound. I'd guess you don't work in place that caters to the first category, and that you are referring to people who ask "Why should I pay $500 more for a real audio system from you instead of a much cheaper prepackaged system from Best Buy?"

[Nowhere]

Yep Jon P. Inghram, same thoughts here.
KvH, I don't have anything about expensive Hi-Fi equipment, as long as the price is well-founded/legitimate/can be justified in reasonable way. That article is simply about equipment to which this doesn't apply, such as cables for tens/hundreds € per meter and people who find "justifications" for them (at least that's my impression...)

BTW, you gotta love the motherboards/etc. with integrated tubes

[Mehen]

Yeah with audiophiles there is expensive, and then there is EXPENSIVE. Sometimes it is worth the upgrade but other times its not. For a lot of people it might be worth it to go from a $5 powercord to a $100 powercord, maybe not so much sound wise, but because it will last longer, the connection is tighter, maybe a tiny sound difference, but when you go from the $100 powercord to a $500 powercord the results are less noticeable if any (and yes there are lots of powercords that expensive).

[Brian Ellis]

Yeah with audiophiles there is expensive, and then there is EXPENSIVE. Sometimes it is worth the upgrade but other times its not. For a lot of people it might be worth it to go from a $5 powercord to a $100 powercord, maybe not so much sound wise, but because it will last longer, the connection is tighter, maybe a tiny sound difference, but when you go from the $100 powercord to a $500 powercord the results are less noticeable if any (and yes there are lots of powercords that expensive).

You have obviously been nobbled by the scammers! There is NO difference in the results between your $5 and $500 power cord. I rest my case.

[Jon P. Inghram]

You have obviously been nobbled by the scammers! There is NO difference in the results between your $5 and $500 power cord. I rest my case.

Actually, there is a "legitimate" reason why a $500 power cord might sound better than a $5 one: the placebo effect. If the buyer expects it to sound better, and wants it to sound better, they are going to perceive it as sounding better even when there is no difference.

[Sasq]

better yet, buy a $5 power cord, put $495 in the server fund, and I will tell you your sound system sounds better.

It is also more value for money.

[Fluff]

must make a donation.

Decent quality power supplies can make a difference though. To TV's and Hifi.

[Brian Ellis]

A propos, Newnes have just invited me to do a press review of:
Audio Power Amplifier Design Handbook, 4e by Douglas Self.

Douglas Self offers a tried and tested method for designing audio amplifiers in a way that improves performance at every point in the circuit where distortion can creep in - without significantly increasing cost. His quest for the Blameless Amplifier takes readers through the causes of distortion, measurement techniques, and design solutions to minimise distortion and efficiency. The result is a book that is crammed with unique insights into audio design and performance, as well as complete amplifier designs and schematics.

Whether you are a dedicated audiophile who wants to gain a more complete understanding of the design issues behind a truly great amp, or a professional electronic designer seeking to learn more about the art of amplifier design, Douglas Self's Handbook is the essential guide to design principles and practice. Self is senior designer with a high-end audio manufacturer, as well as author of numerous magazine articles in the pages of Electronics World/Wireless World. His career in audio design is the foundation of a book that is based solidly on practical experience as well as a dedication to a methodology based on measurement, analysis and scientific design principles.

The fourth edition includes new material on DC offset protection circuitry, the design of DC servos and electrical safety and safety standards. In addition, there is a new chapter on Class D power amplifiers

I would suggest that the "tube-o-philes" read this book to find out why semiconductors are better.

[KRSESQ]

It may be true that semiconductors do a better job of faithfully reproducing the recorded sound (and I'll be the first person to admit it), but that doesn't alter the fact that tube amps sound better to the average listener. I have a forty year old console television in my shop with a tube amp and the sound it produces from its old solid state FM tuner is so much more listener friendly (for want of a better term) than any of my solid state equipment (not as impressive as it sounds, since my solid state stuff is 25 years old itself! :P ). The sound of the tube amp has a rounder, mellower sound with richer bass than the more modern equipment. True, this may be a result of all of the defects of the tube amp, with its various distortions and lack of frequency response. But it doesn't alter the fact that it is a genuine pleasure to listen to. It may be that the tubes are better at masking the errors in reproduction in such a way as to fool the ear into hearing what isn't there. I don't care. All I know is that it sounds splendid.

As to CRTs being phased out in favor of LCDs and Plasmas, it should hardly be a surprise. The only real reason CRTs are cheaper than the newer tech (aside from them being built in China, which many of the LCD & Plasma screens are) is that they represent a fully mature technology with many decades and literally billions of man-hours of R&D behind them and billions of dollars of manufacturing infrastructure supporting them.

It may be that CRTs "look better" than LCD or Plasma in the same way that my tube amp "sounds better" than the solid state. It fools the eye into seeing what isn't really there, and masking the undesirable elements that are. LCDs and Plasmas are probably a bit more honest in that respect, displaying the image with all the warts visible at 1080i.

Kevin

[Mehen]

You have obviously been nobbled by the scammers! There is NO difference in the results between your $5 and $500 power cord. I rest my case.

1 - connection is better, the plug will be set in better with better ends on it and be harder to knock out of place
2 - less prone to shorts/damage etc
3 - 0 defects = 0 sound problems caused by cheap power cords being defective. ie grounding hums, loss/gain of power in speakers during spikes (of either power or of the sound) = "tiny sound difference" (to quote myself)

Obviously there are limits to this - hence why I said a $100 power cord would be better than a $5, but a $500 power would probably have no difference (as I said before).

It's a pity you rest your case...

ps. ultimately though, I would rather spend the $100 on a good hamburger.

[Mehen]

I would suggest that the "tube-o-philes" read this book to find out why semiconductors are better.

I think tubes are better because of what my ears hear, not what my eyes read.

[Brian Ellis]

I think tubes are better because of what my ears hear, not what my eyes read.

If you wish to spend kilodollars for inferior results, that's your affair.