Suggestions for a camcorder

[Umfriend]

Hi all,

So we're looking to replace our, I donnow, ten yo?, Hi-8 camcorder and take another stride into the digital age that we are bound to enter into.

What should I be looking for? We're just consumers but it must be mountable on a stand because the wife will be using it to record workshop/training-sessions. We prefer things small and light. Not sure if it shoul dbe HD or DVD based, any formats I need to consider, preferably as little as editing or whatnot to get it onto a DVD in final form.

Thx

P.S. I have a dislike for Sony. I might consider it but have a heavy bias against it.

[Mikele]

If you don't edit the material, you can get a DVD cam, but I think is the worse format.

MiniDV cams are now cheaper than ever and actually is the best quality, good and cheap format (tape) and easy to edit via firewire and a very old program do the service (videostudio 6 and forward, to 11). XP moviemaker also do the job. Pinnacle Studio 9 to 11 (better Ulead editors).

HD cams are interesting, like Canon HV20, but you will need a very very fast computer to edit the material in HD format (well, you can record in SD format like MiniDV). A dual core or QUAD CORE!!! (yes, more power is better) is recommended.

[Jerry Jones]

Models to consider:

1. Sony HDR-CX7

http://www.jonesgroup.net/?p=15

2. JVC GZ-HD3

http://www.jonesgroup.net/?p=32

3. Canon HG10

http://www.jonesgroup.net/?p=35

That Canon HG10 looks nice.

Canon has been widely praised for recent models, which have yielded superior image quality.

The Canon records to hard disk.

The JVC records to hard disk.

The Sony records to memory stick.

All three are relatively light and compact.

The heavier/bulkier Hitachi DZ-BD7H / DZ-BD70 models offer fantastic Blu-ray Disc capacity... you can record an amazing amount of video to these types of discs.

http://www.jonesgroup.net/?p=36

Anyway, those are some ideas to consider.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

I forgot to mention.

I have the Sony HDR-UX1.

The Sony HDR-UX1 is going for $599.95:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/446815-REG/Sony_HDRUX1_HDR_UX1_AVC_HD_DVD.html

Reviews:

http://www.videomaker.com/article/12936/

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camc...9961.html#more

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-Review.htm

http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/Read...rticleID=11994

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/HDRUX1.PDF (OFFICIAL MANUAL)

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu...teType=Updates (FIRMWARE UPDATE - AUDIO ISSUE)

Cons: Limited record times on the 8cm discs; firmware upgrade required to fix external microphone recordings on certain serial number models.

Pros: Price, Sony build quality, headphone jack, external microphone input, extensive manual controls, AVCHD for small HD file sizes, standard definition MPEG-2 recording capability. Very decent image quality.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Brian Ellis]

I agree that mini-DV is the way to go at this moment. HD is too tricky (too many competing formats, no reasonable DVD system etc.). DVD/HDD cams cause more trouble than they're worth, judging from the forums. DV is reliable, proven, easy to use and easy to edit.

As for makes, I agree that Sony is best avoided as they often have little quirks that Sony develop to make them non-standard. Canon tends to do the same. I have two Panasonic 3-CCDs and I'm more than satisfied with their performance, ease of use and longevity (the older one is nearly 12 years old!!!!) - and they are 100% standard. Size is a problem. I prefer my older cam just because it is bigger and heavier. My ham fists cannot manage the tiny controls of the smaller one easily, and the big'un is 100% better for hand-held shots (cam shake). IMHO, small is not good.

[Dr Mordrid]

I too have Panasonics and they're solid. My first Panasonic was a PV-DV200, and that old thing still works like a champ & has duty as a backup.

None of the Sony/Canon silliness. Gawd I hate that.

Like Brian I too am ham-handed, US size 12's to be exact, and have trouble with tiny controls.

[Jerry Jones]

Well, Sony has been getting better -- with certain models.

And Panasonic, in my view, has been making me mad, lately.

First, the early Panasonic 3CCD MiniDV models -- with external microphone inputs and headphone jacks -- were great bargains.

I agree.

Panasonic then seemed to really have its act together.

With the more recent Panasonic AVCHD models, however, Panasonic seems to be getting "lazy" and is leaving out things like the headphone jack (although they have been including an adapter -- in some cases -- that allows the camcorder's AV output to function as a headphone jack).

Sony's first AVCHD models -- the HDR-SR1 and the HDR-UX1 -- both include the microphone inputs *and* the headphone jacks.

Later Sony models... well... you have to really read the product descriptions carefully.

The new Canon HG10 has both a microphone input and a headphone jack; so Canon seems to have done a stellar job with that new model.

For me, audio is one of the most critical aspects of recording with a camcorder.

People who watch your production just won't forgive poor quality/missing audio.

MiniDV is fine if your audience will be viewing your finished content on standard definition TVs using standard DVD media.

But if your audience will be watching on high definition screens, they'll probably want a format that can really show the potential of large-frame, 1920 x 1080/16:9 native video.

The Cineform .avi codec makes editing of AVCHD and HDV a snap.

Yes, the Cineform .avi codec costs $250, but that's not too steep for most people.

Editing Cineform HD .avi files is about as easy as editing DV .avi files.

I know... I'm using Cineform with ease on a 2.4Ghz AMD Athon 64 laptop.

The Macintosh platform uses the Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC), which is built-in to the new iMovie '08.

So -- Mac or PC -- AVCHD editing is now no more difficult than editing DV .avi files.

I've been reading on some Web forums that some individuals have found a way to convert AVCHD to Huffy HD for editing; I haven't looked into that closely, but perhaps it's another way to get the job done.

It's a myth that AVCHD editing is difficult now that these intermediate codec alternatives are available.

Also, DVD cams are no more difficult than any other type of cam.

Video is data.

It doesn't matter if it's recorded to a tape or to a DVD (although there may be some differences in compression method).

As long as your software can pull video from a DVD using "import from DVD" commands, you're fine.

I've had the best luck converting standard definition MPEG-2 DVD camcorder files to an I-frame codec format for editing.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

AVCHD also really does appear to be the new "MiniDV" of the high definition world.

The number of new AVCHD camcorder models is exploding.

And the list of companies supporting AVCHD is growing by leaps and bounds:

http://www.avchd-info.org/

If you click on the preceding link, you'll see the list of companies.

Adobe Systems Incorporated
Apple Inc.
ArcSoft, Inc.
Avid Technology, Inc.
B.H.A Corporation
CANON INC.
Canopus Co., Ltd.
CyberLink Corporation
DigiOn, Inc.
Focus Enhancements, Inc.
FUNAI ELECTRIC CO., LTD.
InterVideo, Inc.
I-O DATA DEVICE, INC.
MainConcept AG
Nero AG
NEC Electronics Corporation
Pegasys Inc.
Pinnacle Systems a division of Avid Technology
PIONEER CORPORATION
PIXELA CORPORATION
PLANNET ASSOCIATE CO., LTD.
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.
SHARP CORPORATION
Sonic Solutions
Techno Mathematical Co., Ltd.
tram, Inc.
Ulead Systems, Inc. (now a Corel division)

That's a pretty big list

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

By the way, Panasonic's HDC-DX1 is a DVD AVCHD camcorder model:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/477377-REG/Panasonic_HDCDX1_HDC_DX1_AVCHD_3CCD_High.html

At $549 street, it's the least expensive AVCHD model out there.

Decent image quality and a microphone input and there's a way to get headphone sound, too.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Umfriend]

Thanks for all this information and leads. I have been quiet but have read it all a bit.

We will not be into editing and stuff. Currently we record on Hi-8, simply plug it into our DVD recorder and (via the HD) stuff it on DVD. One downside to DV that I can imagine is that when you use it for workshops you may want to be able to replay takes instantaneously and I guess (ignorant) that you'd have to guess how far to rewind the tape for a given take, right?

I hope I'll be able to really read soon and may come back with questions. Thanks a million, youguys are great.

[Umfriend]

BTW, the HDC-DX1 is euro 700 here.....

I've noticed they also have the HDC-SD1 which records to SDHC cards. Seems to me 8Gb on reasonable priced cards makes life easier than 1.3 DVD-Ram or 2.6 DVD-R DL disks and the camera weighs a mere 430g instead of 680 for the DX1. I *guess* the battery-life will be a tad little bit better as well. Downside, it is 885 euros

Sony appears to be lighter but I have simply had to many sony devices break before due to look forward to purchase that brand.

And then, we could settle for a cheap 4:3 DV or DVD camera which, I guess, would surpass the quality of our Hi-8 camera by quite a margin. And if we keep using our DVD-recorder where I burn about 2 hrs per DVD, I'd lose the benefit of AVCHD anyway...

[Jerry Jones]

Wow, Sanyo has just introduced a new one that looks much better than previous models:

http://www.jonesgroup.net/?p=44

It's the VPC-HD1000.

Check it out at the link above.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net