AVCHD video - editting and camcorder.

[ND66]

Gentlemen, I need your advice.


It’s been quite a few years for me (as a hobby) of shooting video on DV Camcorder, editing it in Media Studio Pro and encoding using Canopus Procoder.

But, need to move up to the HD land……..


So, I’m thinking the new Canon HF100. Not that I’m crazy about it, but this is the most affordable solution for amateur to shoot in 30p. DV tapes are a cheap and reliable backup solution, but what’s going to play it in 20 years from now?
Don’t want to have HD in my camcorder too. Too risky. But with the Flash Memory you get speedy response, longer battery life, etc.???

I’ll be upgrading my PC to a Quad core down the road and my editing software has to be replaced as well. Just not sure if I want go so deep into editing like I used to, maybe I’ll stick with a simple cuts and transitions.

I have 3 kids, need to preserve their childhood on video, yet I can’t spend too much time doing it now. They just crave for my attention now, something I’m sure will change later…… .

Since I didn’t work with AVCHD video yet (I know about there is an I-frame or flag issue that makes it b _ _ _ _ h to edit, if not impossible at all, unless you convert it to MPEG-2, does shooting in 30p makes any difference for editing?

And what software would allow for a simple cut, join and maybe transition work on my AVCHD video without converting it to different file?? Also, what do you think about this Canon HF100????


What do you think... .


Thanks, Andy.

[Hulk]

I don't know much about that camera but it looks very promising. And 30p! Now that's something to get excited about. No more "24p" BS that is really some flakey progressive-ish format in a 60i wrapper that has to be twisted over backwards then straightened and put through the eye of a needle to actually be edited as progressive.

I have a Core 2 Duo overclocked to 3.2GHz and have fooled around with some AVCHD footage using Sony Vegas Pro 8 and the editing performance is pretty good. Definitely workable. I think Sony Movie Studio will edit the AVCHD as well for a lower cost option to get the editing accomplished.

If you upgrade to a Q6600 quad I think you would have a quite responsive editing experience.

[Jerry Jones]

The Sony Vegas Movie Studio software might be the best for AVCHD on the PC.

I don't have it, but I have been told that the Sony software actually ships with the Cineform intermediate codec.

If you can verify that, then you should be able to easily insert your AVCHD clips into the Sony timeline.

The Sony Vegas Movie Studio software -- I know -- reads Sony AVCHD files.

I'm not sure, however, if that product has been updated to support the AVCHD files from other camcorder manufacturers so you need to verify that, too.

But after you verify those two things, then you can simply import the AVCHD files, render (convert) the long GOP AVCHD files to be Cineform I-frame intermediate .avi files.

Then you can easily edit the Cineform .avi intermediate files.

Yes, they're huge.

But they're easy to edit because they're I-Frame... like MiniDV.

And -- best of all -- they do a good job of retaining the quality of the original clips.

And -- another bonus -- their audio remains intact... with good synchronization.

The Corel Ulead VideoStudio 11 Plus software -- with the latest patch -- allows you to edit the raw AVCHD files directly, but Smart Render doesn't seem to work properly for AVCHD editing (or any type of long GOP MPEG editing).

The Corel software doesn't include the Cineform codec either.

So if you want Cineform, you have to buy it.

And when I installed the latest version, it caused the DVD authoring module of my Corel Ulead VideoStudio 11 Plus to crash the entire program.

So I'd say look at the Sony program first... even if the interface is more complex.

Make sure that software will support non-Sony AVCHD files and you should be OK.

As for me, of course, the best solution has been to move to the Macintosh platform where I edit AVCHD with ease in both Apple iMovie '08 and Apple Final Cut Express 4.

Hope this helps,

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[ND66]

Thank you very much, gentlemen.
I knew I can depend on fellow Murcer’s to point me to the right direction.

Since I can edit it a little, the wait for camcorder upgrade is over.

Don’t know why, but I like the Ulead MSP a lot, something I can’t say about Corel products. Don’t know what it is, I just don’t…..

Sony wasn’t bad, just liked the MSP layout better and since there was a Director’s Cut option (cheaper), I went with that. Granted, they got me later with new release when they killed the Director’s cut, I did settle for the full release.

Back to reality. At this point I know I’ll not switch to Apple. I work with complex CAD/CAM software, knowledge of their programming languages and environment is essential.

I’m happy to hear that the Sony Vegas Movie Studio software is up to this task. Even when rendering to different format, as long as it stays in sinc with the audio and without downgrading in quality too much, it shouldn’t be a big deal with today’s Quad core CPU’s, large FSB and Sata HD’s.

As much as I would like to get Vegas Pro, $$$ talks and I have 3 college funds to contribute into….


As for the camcorder, Elie brought up a point in the other post:

So I heard that recording HDV to tape is less compressed that SD therefore tape gives higher quality, plus tape is cheaper, though may suffer from dropouts.

I would think that lost frames are possible; the “throat” may not be wide enough for 17 Mbps data. A different compression????


Now, my first choice for camcorder was the new HV30. I’ll be like a “girl” saying that “size does matter!!!”, and the CMOS sensor size on HV30 is 1/2.7", while HF100 has 1/3.2" CMOS sensor with more Megas squeezed out of it. In my books, that’s an automatic worse low light performance and possibly more artifacts in the picture.
The only question would be how much?

Andy.

[Hulk]

Andy,

A 1/2.7" sensor has about 40% more area than a 1/3.2" sensor. So that's a little more than a third of a stop better. Not really that much. Now 1/2.7" compared to 1/6" is 5 stops and that's HUGE!

For me the difference in sensor size isn't enough for me to have a camera with a tape transport. My suggestion is to wait for some HF100 samples for two reasons:
1. Download the trial version of MovieStudio and make sure the HF100 native video samples actually import into the timeline. Plus you can see if the editing performance is good enough to go without the HDI (high definition intermediary).
2. Have a good look at the quality of the samples from the camera.

I haven't worked with MovieStudio but every AVCHD sample I've downloaded from the internet that has come from a camera has imported into Vegas Pro 8 without issue. And with my rig simple editing performance is more than adequate.

The HF100 is looking tempting to me.
30p - Love it
1/3.2" sensor size is not bad considering all the 1/6" sensor cameras out there
Solid state storage appeals to me a lot

[ND66]

The HF100 is looking tempting to me.
30p - Love it
1/3.2" sensor size is not bad considering all the 1/6" sensor cameras out there
Solid state storage appeals to me a lot

Well, it looks tempting to me as well.

Just don't know how I can overcome a camcorder without viewfinder.

A bright outdoors condition like at the sunny beach......



Also would like to see someone compare this camera to the HV20/30 under low light action.



.

[Jerry Jones]

I've discovered the fix for this Cineform codec-related crashing problem...

NAME AND SAVE A COREL ULEAD VIDEOSTUDIO 11 PLUS PROJECT FILE PRIOR TO OPENING THE DVD AUTHORING MODULE AND THERE WILL BE NO CRASH.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

And when I installed the latest version (of the Cineform HD intermediate codec), it caused the DVD authoring module of my Corel Ulead VideoStudio 11 Plus to crash the entire program.

[Jerry Jones]

I spoke too soon.

It's still crashing.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net