Blu-ray Tanking: Four Reasons

[Jerry Jones]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,142906-c,techindustrytrends/article.html

1. Blu-ray players are more than four times the cost of standard DVD players.

2. Upgraded DVD players offer near-HD quality for a fraction of the price.

3. Why buy when you can rent?

4. Downloads.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[paulw]

I just listened to a detail review of the movie I Am legend from http://www.avforums.com/ who basically said that there was not much difference betwen the DVD and the BD version with the exceptions of some close up shots. Compared to the theater release the BD version was very soft..

[Dr Mordrid]

5. the advent of Divx and Divx-Ultra DVD decks with 1080 upsampling.

Saw a Panasonic DMR-EZ47VK with VHS VCR, DVD +R/-R/RAM/DL play/record, Divx play, SD slot, DV input & HDMI-1080 out last weekend. Sweet rig.

~$320 USD, but Amazon.com has refurbs for <$150.

[paulw]

5. the advent of Divx and Divx-Ultra DVD decks with 1080 upsampling.

~$320 USD, but Amazon.com has refurbs for <$150.

The problem with these new DIVX playback devises is that they don't playback DIVX HD or the like only SD..

[Apulo]

I keep reading this kind of nonsense over the internet. The same people predicted HD DVD would win and BR would lose, for much the same arguments. Looks like there's lots of sore losers on the net.

> 1. Blu-ray players are more than four times the cost of standard DVD players.

DVD players at the same product cycle period were more than 4 times more expensive than VHS recorders. Prices will come down once real mass production kicks in. As it always does. Most ridiculous, short-sighted argument of the four.

> 2. Upgraded DVD players offer near-HD quality for a fraction of the price.

Can see where it comes from. Lots of material not really worth HD. But then, it's much more than just those few films. Lots of movies ARE worth the upgrade. And HD is revolutionising TV material. Look at the BBC documentary series Planet Earth. Now you get shots that filmmakers wouldn't dream doing for SD, because there wouldn't be much to see. With the detail HD (1080p at least, 720p isn't much of an improvement over SD, whatever Jerry might claim) offers, you can do wide-angle shots or close-ups with so much detail, it opens up an entire range of new possibilities. I've seen Planet Earth on my screen in 1080p and good upscaled DVD. HD wins without even a contest. In fact, it's this experience that has made me start looking at investing in HD equipment. Before, I was believing the tale that upscaled DVDs were just as good as 1080p. Oh, and a decent upscaling DVD player will set you back quite a bit, the standard upscaling features of anything below $400 (price of an entry leven BR player) isn't very eye-pleasing stuff indeed.

But by all means stick to this fantasy propagated by people who's interest lie in the failure of HD. Once you see 1080p with material meant for it, you'll change your mind. Seeing is believing.

> 3. Why buy when you can rent?

Yes indeed. Why did all those fools buy hundreds of millions of DVDs when they could have rented them. Darn, if only this genius had told us all this before, we could have saved thousands of dollars each. Now why didn't I think of this... and hundreds of millions of people with me. We're all such idiots. Thank the gods for Jerry and PC World journalists who open the eyes of us blasphemers who dare collect things.

> 4. Downloads.

Sure. This I'll buy. Maybe. If DRM dies. In 20 years or so. When I get enough speed on my ADSL line, unlimited bandwidth (one movie, minimum 15GB if you want anywhere near decent quality. And Jerry's preferred 720p does not make my Q list) and a decent reliable long-term storage medium (BD-R maybe...?), because I still want to collect. Even if they would sell movies for a few dozen cents each download, I still want to collect. There's plenty of movies that are OOP on DVD and cannot be found, not for sale OR rent, the same will hold true for downloads, no shop will have unlimited server storage. I've searched for some classic music recordings for ages, and can't find them anywhere, not on CD or downloads. They're not mainstream enough according to the sellers (who's stock inventory is limited to top 100 mass market pop songs and nothing else). Luckily my dad collected them on LP years ago.

But wait, collecting is wrong, wrong, WRONG!, isn't it? It goes against the REAL FAITH. We'll all burn in hell!

Guess what. I don't care. And neither do all those hundreds of millions of collectors with me.

Dream on, sweet Jerry. Happy fantasies, PC World. I'll look forward to a few years from now, when you're watching Blurays while bashing other new things. Downloads maybe, if they catch on?

Now, I'll head back to watching 1080p film instead of wasting further time here. Happy fighting

[Jerry Jones]

Look at the BBC documentary series Planet Earth. Now you get shots that filmmakers wouldn't dream doing for SD, because there wouldn't be much to see. With the detail HD (1080p at least, 720p isn't much of an improvement over SD, whatever Jerry might claim) offers, you can do wide-angle shots or close-ups with so much detail, it opens up an entire range of new possibilities.

Delusions; delusions.

I'll bet you can't even name the model of the camera used to shoot the BBC series.

Your inability to do so would not surprise me since just about everything you wrote is not factual, making it even more obvious that "HD DVD" and "Blu-ray Disc" are as dead as DISC-o.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

Apulo,

Obviously, you can't name the model of camera used for the BBC series you mentioned in your delusional rant.

Remember, you are the individual who inserted your foot into your mouth.

OK... remember what you said about 1080p and 720p?

And you then brought up the BBC series "Earth" and "Planet Earth" and you suggested that you are under the impession that these were shot in 1080p and not 720p.

Isn't that what you are suggesting, Apulo?

If so, behold the truth:

http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/bbc-earth-panasonic-varicam-hd-0807/

The upcoming documentary “Earth,” a feature-length version of the documentary TV series “Planet Earth,” was shot with Panasonic AJ-HDC27 VariCam HD Cinema cameras for all land-based acquisition.

Apulo, you may find this impossible to believe, but did you know that the Panasonic AJ-HDC27 Varicam is a 720p camera?

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=94208&catGroupId=14569&surfModel=AJ-HDC27H

Apparently, you didn't know that.

Look, all I've said is that 1080p would only be better than 720p if one is shooting the 1080p at a full 60 frames per second.

I'm not a fan of low resolution frame rates, in other words.

The 720p Panasonic Varicam supports a full 60 frames per second.

That's why it's great for fast action recording.

Before you launch into your next delusional rant, get your facts straight.

Please.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

Oh, and I should add -- since you obviously seem to be fact compromised -- that 1080/60p has not even been available to professional photographers until recently.

1080/60p is so incredibly data intensive, the engineers in the video production world have faced some difficult challenges; they've had to design very special recorders that have the ability to record such a data intensive format.

An example of a camera that can shoot 1080/60p is the new F-23 Sony CineAlta:

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/minisites/cinealta/shoot/f23.shtml

...however...

...to record, one must buy the optional SRW1:

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?id=76234

According to the FAQ...

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/minisites/cinealta/shoot/F23_FAQs.shtml

Does the F23 support 1080/60P RGB 4:4:4 recording?
It is currently planned to be supported in 3Q of FY2007.

So don't you see?

1080/60p recording hasn't even *existed* until very recently, which means the vast majority of so-called "1080p" material has been acquired at 24 frames per second and not 60 frames per second.

60 frames per second material can look awesome... even at the 1280 x 720 "Varicam" frame size. Your condemnation of 720p is not logical.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Mehen]

Just look at how free online music crippled the CD industry. Oh wait, it didn't.

[Jerry Jones]

Just look at how free online music crippled the CD industry. Oh wait, it didn't.

Again, you show no link to *any* statistics to give our readers any perspective.

Ever heard of NPD?

They track things like digital music downloads vs. CD sales.

Read:

http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_080226a.html

PORT WASHINGTON, NEW YORK, February 26, 2008 – According to The NPD Group, a leading provider of consumer and retail information, the amount of music that consumers acquired in the U.S. increased by 6 percent in 2007. A sharp increase in legal digital download revenues could not offset declines in CD sales, which resulted in a net 10 percent decline in music spending (from $44 to $40 per capita among Internet users). As a result the overall portion of music acquisition that consumers actually paid for fell to 42 percent in 2007 from 48 percent in 2006

NPD estimates that one million consumers dropped out of the CD buyer market in 2007, a flight led by younger consumers. In fact, 48 percent of U.S. teens did not purchase a single CD in 2007, compared to 38 percent in 2006.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Mehen]

Obviously totally crippled. You got me there.

BluRay will runs its course, digital downloads won't be able to render it dead as disco any time soon. The next optical disk format will be the one that has more trouble.

From your same article

Twenty-nine million consumers acquired digital music legally, via pay-to-download sites last year, which is an increase of 5 million over the previous year. Sales growth was largely driven by consumers age 36 to 50 – a segment that was aggressively acquiring digital music-players in 2007.

Interesting. Seems as though the young "converts" aren't the ones paying for music. Seems like a large part of the CD sales drop was due to those teens that figured it would just be easier to steal digital music than buy (or steal) actual CDs.

[Jerry Jones]

And while we're talking numbers, 720p TVs -- while eventually they will be replaced by 1080p TVs -- still accounted for the bulk of sales during Super Bowl week:

http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_080221.html

Having TVs with higher resolution was part of the consumers’ game plan this year. 1080p LCD TVs accounted for 35 percent of LCD unit sales Super Bowl week, up from just 13 percent last year. While 720p LCDs were still the best-selling, unit share dropped from 73 percent for Super Bowl 2007 to 63 percent this year. Plasma TVs also saw a shift in sales. 1080p plasmas went from less than 1 percent of plasma TV sales last year, to nearly 16 percent this year. 720p dropped from 95 percent to 80 percent of sales.

So you can slam consumers who buy 720p TVs all you wish.

But the fact of the matter is they will get the same quality that you get when viewing material -- such as the BBC "Planet Earth" series -- that was shot with a 720p camera.

The 1080p thing is so hyped it's unbelievable but some of you guys just keep buying it.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Sasq]

pretty sure we convered this before

I repeat
Pie > Cake

click

[Dr Mordrid]

The 1080p thing is so hyped it's unbelievable but some of you guys just keep buying it.

And for those of us producing in 1080? What do you suggest we preview on?

Methinks 720p is fine for small sets, under 42" in particular, but for future-proof large sets you can't touch 1080.