Cannon - 300D or 10D?

[Duty]

I am looking at getting a new dig camera for here at work. Is there a big difference between the EOS-10D and the Rebel / EOS-300D? Seem pretty much the same to me. There are some small differences an ISO rate and resolutions but other that is there a reason to get one over the other?

Jeff

[HedsSpaz]

The two biggest differences are the body construction and the frame buffer. The 10D has a 'magnesium alloy' body whereas the DRebel has a plastic body. The 10D also has a 9 frame buffer whereas the Rebel has a 4 frame buffer. There are a few other features that may or may not matter for your intended use such as mirror lockup. If you want a full list of differences check out this review at dpreview.com.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/

Personally, I went with the 10D. To be honest, I didn't really even consider the Rebel very much. The limitation on custom functions, frame buffer, and body construction where more than enough to sway me. (I also happen to think the silver body is just plain ugly ).

That said, if this is something your employer is going to be purchasing for you, then you need to really evaluate exactly what you are going to be using it for and see if any of the real differences are 'make or break' features. For example, if you are doing product photography then I can nearly garauntee you that you will want mirror lockup.

If you want to really get into the nitty gritty then you need to look through the 'custom function' list of the 10D and see if there is anything critical there.

Hope that helps,
Ian

[az]

You could also check out other options such as Minolta's excellent Dimage A1 or A2. Only a it cheaper than either of the canons, but including a very good (!) 28-200mm lens, lots of control, lots of features, intelligent flash control, etc.

AZ

[The PIT]

One hell of a camera some of the best pics I've seen from a digital camera. Whens Xmas???

[Duty]

Originally posted by HedsSpaz
That said, if this is something your employer is going to be purchasing for you...

Unfortunately I am the employer, so the money comes from me .

I'm just not sure if the added features will add to what I need. I think I should have stated what we are going to be using this for. The pictures we need are for branding a company. So all pictures need to be high quality and high resolution. We do web and print work and some of the print work is really big (ie posters, signs and billboards). The pictures could be of the client (or just people), places (buildings, roads...) , landscapes (Mt Lassen and Mt. Shasta are real close) and lastly products for web and print. We do so much now that the camera needs to be versatile. We will not be doing action shots and all the pictures will be shot at the highest res possible, so stuff like ISO3200 and lots of res settings are of little use to us. The stronger body on the other hand is a really good selling point.

Originally posted by az
You could also check out other options such as Minolta's excellent Dimage A1 or A2. Only a it cheaper than either of the canons, but including a very good (!) 28-200mm lens, lots of control, lots of features, intelligent flash control, etc.

AZ

I will look at it. Do you think it will stand up well with heavy use?



Jeff

[Duty]

Two quick questions about the MINOLTA cameras:

1) Can you change the lenses?

2) Can you add an external flash?

They don't look like you can.

Jeff

[az]

You cannot change the lens, but there are (will be when the A1 hits the streets, should be here any week now) a 1.5x tele converter (so it'd be 300mm, in a MUCH smaller package than 300mm Equiv will be on the DSLRs), and a wide angle conv (forgot the ratio, I think it'll be 22mm equiv.). The built-in lens is of very high quality, you'd have to pay lots to get that good a lens for an SLR.

You can use Minolta Maxxum program flashes (5600 HS(D) and 3600 H(D)), even up to four of them with wireless automatic through the lens metering (kinda like intelligent slave flashes that meter automatically), you have a connector for studio flashes, and there are a macro ring and a macro twin flash available.

The cameras are very robust. To quote Phil Askey from dpreview: Gone is the hollow feel of the early 7 series cameras, instead the A1 feels solid, weighty (but only a tiny bit heavier than the 7Hi) and robust. The metal used to make up the body seems to be thicker and this camera feels like it could go into battle and come out looking considerably better than the photographer. This has to be one of the most comfortable digital cameras to hold, the design of the hand grip is just perfect, depth, thickness and even the makeup of the rubber used are all perfect. At the back a small 'hook' is placed just so for your thumb. Kudos Minolta.

I know someone who went on desert trips with the Dimage 7, and also mountainbiked with it. He had no complaints about the cam, and he was a Leica analog user before (though of course you can't expect real Leica quality of any digital camera).

For ruggedness, take the 10D over the 300D! Nikons are also quite rugged, and the D70 looks good (dunno if it's available already).

About the billboards: I don't think you can get enough out of any of those cameras for really sharp really big billboards. But of course BBs are viewed from a distance, which kind of negates the problem. Best is to ask someone who knows (if you don't know yourself) if 6mp will be enough for BBs.

I don't know how much you know about photography (I don't), so a bit of a warning: The photographer is much more important for a picture's quality is than the camera, much like a good brush doesn't make one a good painter (shoulda followed my own advice there, buying a 1000 Euro camera and having no eye for motives ).

Most important when choosing the camera, though: How do YOU like to use it, is it comfortable to hold, do you mind dragging kilograms of photo equipment with you if you're going DSLR?

(I know I'm a bit of a Minolta Fanboy, but their Dimage prosumer cams are really really good and underrated, because all people look at DSLRs at that price point and forget to make sane decisions whether they need what a DSRL gives them or if they'd be better off with an SLR-type prosumer cam.)

AZ

[Greebe]

(will be when the A1 hits the streets, should be here any week now)

Jeff he intended to say the A2

If you choose Canon (have owned several 35mm's) for anything get the 10D for it's alloy frame construction. If it happens to get banged or dropped (and it'll happen sooner or later) it'll pay for itself in the first Oops.

Teleconverters are the poor mans way of getting the shot and do lower Quality (also increase f stop, etc.)

The A2 is indeed a very nice camera, have seen them priced at around $900USD whereas the 10D is a tad under $1100

[az]

What Greebe said.

AZ

[Duty]

Generally speaking the BB stuff is rare so I'm not worried about that but from what I've been told 6+ megapixel is good for normal BB but larger might require 8 or 10 megapixel. And only if a single pic is used to cover the entire area.

We have the SLR side covered; we're trying to cover the digital side now.

The changeable lenses are a must. Other wise it sounds good.


Jeff

[spadnos]

Since the Kodak DCS Pro SLR/n has been released, the older model DCS Pro 14/n is significantly less expensive - around $3000. This is a 14 MPixel camera which uses Nikon lenses.

I know that's a LOT more money than the others, but it is also the highest resolution (35mm equivalent) digital camera you can buy.

The sensor is full frame, so you don't have to deal with lenses acting like they're 1.5x the focal length. The camera has 512M RAM, so it can take about 17 shots (in raw mode) before it has to write to the CF card. If it interests you at all, it's easy to sign up for their developer program (you could make custom PC software that goes through a range of exposures or does time lapse, for instance)

(as a side note, this camera is so good, that we are probably going to use it on an upcoming development project - it's good enough to spend the money on 60 of them !)

- Steve

[Duty]

Originally posted by spadnos
Since the Kodak DCS Pro SLR/n has been released, the older model DCS Pro 14/n is significantly less expensive - around $3000. This is a 14 MPixel camera which uses Nikon lenses.

I know that's a LOT more money than the others, but it is also the highest resolution (35mm equivalent) digital camera you can buy.

The sensor is full frame, so you don't have to deal with lenses acting like they're 1.5x the focal length. The camera has 512M RAM, so it can take about 17 shots (in raw mode) before it has to write to the CF card. If it interests you at all, it's easy to sign up for their developer program (you could make custom PC software that goes through a range of exposures or does time lapse, for instance)

(as a side note, this camera is so good, that we are probably going to use it on an upcoming development project - it's good enough to spend the money on 60 of them !)

- Steve

Wow that sounds cool. I wish I could. I had a meeting tonight with my partners and we pushed off the camera until the summer and instead we are going to hire a new employee. Odd trade, but what the heck. With the current budget I will most likely end up getting the 10D but, I will go look at the Kodak. This summer I might up the budget for the camera if the new person works out well.

Thanks everyone for the input. I love this place for getting information.


Jeff

[az]

I would advise against the Kodak. It has some issues (I think noise, sharpness - as a result of aggressive noise reduction - and colour representation).

The Fuji S2 Pro is a very good camera. Lower noise than the canons, great colour, uses a Nikon body and lenses (rugged), and isn't very expensive, especially now that the S3 Pro is coming out. It outputs 12 MP files (interpolated from a rotated 6MP sensor).

The Nikon D70 should be out by the summer - Nikon's competitor to the 10D and 300D, and it looks to be a very good camera.

In october, Minolta will release their Maxxum 7 Digital (tentative name) with some very interesting features: 10D class (6MP etc.), function dials for most major functions on top (so it will handle like an analog cam), and of course Anti-Shake, which makes ALL of your lenses optically stabilized.

AZ

[az]

Just out of curiosity: What do you need interchangeable lenses for, Duty?

AZ

[VJ]

Just an additional note on the 300D: in order not to have it compete too much with the 10D, canon limited some functions (things like linking exposremodes to focusmodes). It might be interesting so see if those limitations are a problem for you..

The Nikon D70 does seem to offer a nice package (no artificial limitations), and has a great exposure metering system (3D RGB matrix metering). For any professional related work, I'd not consider the 300D. So, in the lower range, if you need exchangeable lenses, you are left with:
Canon 10D
Nikon D70
Nikon D100 (might become obsolete, but has some connections the D70 lacks, e.g. 10-pin remote - D70 does have a wireless remote)
Sigma SD10
Fuji S2Pro / S3Pro
Olympus 4/3 system
Minolta DSLR (not sure about the model number)


Jörg