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Sound Cards Update, July 2001

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  • Sound Cards Update, July 2001

    Well folks, as many of you know I've been hunting for quite some time for just the right sound card.

    I'm pretty picky, since I have the following setup:

    SMP
    Win2k and WinXP exclusively
    Digital speakers
    VIA Chipset
    1GB of RAM

    Ok, so let's run down the list.

    Aureal: I started with a couple different Aureal cards. Of course, then they got bought out. Darn it! These were pretty good cards, reasonable in SMP, reasonable in Win2k. But no more support (yes, I know Videologic is still writing drivers for their card, but those won't work on my Montego2 Quadzilla with digital out, now will they?) so these had to go...

    Creative: Well, a year and a half after Win2k was released, Creative still hasn't written stable Win2k drivers. Oh, their most recent offerings work well in Win2k and WinXP... unless you have SMP and VIA. Oops! (Actually, the VIA problems have largely been fixed, but it looks as though they may NEVER fix the SMP problems).

    Hercules: I bought a Game Theater XP with high hopes. All the reviews had said this was a kickass card, especially in Win2k. Well, after much wailing and gnashing of teeth, it has come out of my machine... but not left the house. It's on the shelf, waiting for Hercules to pull their collective heads out of their collective asses. Problems with the Hercules are as follows:

    1. Lots of RAM (read: more than 256MB) causes problems - apparently Hercules picked a verboten (according to MS) memory range for their offboard amp and filters (that live in the breakout box). As a result, miscellaneous problems crop up in Win2k (see next points). In WinXP the card just doesn't run. Nothing but squeals and crackles.

    2. Problems with lots of games. Many games and even some apps require that you leave media player open (not running, just open) in the background in order for sound to work. This is WEIRD, and has persisted across three driver revisions.

    3. Skipping in Media Player - sound jumps around, media slows down and speeds up sporadically. Not good. Not good at all.

    4. Breakout Box is inconsistent - sometimes the headphones work, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the USB works, sometimes it don't. Urk!

    Philips (Acoustic Edge, et al): This was promising. Sounded GREAT. Worked fine in WIn2k. Worked on in WinXP... until I tried SMP mode. Oops! Blue screens galore, just when running the speaker test! Not to mention the inconsistent digital output (sometimes it works, sometimes it don't work... sometimes loud, sometimes soft... sometimes crackly, sometimes clean). This one went back to the store. Not worth my $100.

    Turtle Beach Santa Cruz: Why do I ever bother buying anything but a Turtle Beach card? *sigh* This is the PERFECT next-gen card. There are already WinXP drivers (although the Win2k drivers work flawlessly in WinXP), it works without a glitch no matter which chipset it's on, SMP doesn't faze it, and all my games work. Digital out is flawless. And it was $75. SOLD!
    The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

    I'm the least you could do
    If only life were as easy as you
    I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
    If only life were as easy as you
    I would still get screwed

  • #2
    Good gooley moogley! Talk about serious hardware issues! The funny thing is, my SB Live! worked great in Win2k with my Via board. I got an Asus Intel board and now it pops and clicks when I'm in 4 channel mode. Odd...
    “Inside every sane person there’s a madman struggling to get out”
    –The Light Fantastic, Terry Pratchett

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Sound Cards Update, July 2001

      Originally posted by Gurm
      Hercules: I bought a Game Theater XP with high hopes. All the reviews had said this was a kickass card, especially in Win2k. Well, after much wailing and gnashing of teeth, it has come out of my machine... but not left the house. It's on the shelf, waiting for Hercules to pull their collective heads out of their collective asses. Problems with the Hercules are as follows:
      I bought one of these about two months ago, too. Their driver updates are extremely slow, and the documentation is sparse (to me, this has been the worst part so far).

      1. Lots of RAM (read: more than 256MB) causes problems - apparently Hercules picked a verboten (according to MS) memory range for their offboard amp and filters (that live in the breakout box). As a result, miscellaneous problems crop up in Win2k (see next points). In WinXP the card just doesn't run. Nothing but squeals and crackles.
      Haven't experienced this issue, but then again, I only have 256MB of ram in my system. For the time being, I don't see it becoming a problem for me, at least until either the hardware or the my software (OS, mainly) needs (and actually uses) more than that.

      2. Problems with lots of games. Many games and even some apps require that you leave media player open (not running, just open) in the background in order for sound to work. This is WEIRD, and has persisted across three driver revisions.
      I've never experienced this. Which games?
      This might explain why media player has popped up from out of the blue while I'm playing UT (has happened a total of about four times so far), though I haven't had any problems not getting sound without it running.

      3. Skipping in Media Player - sound jumps around, media slows down and speeds up sporadically. Not good. Not good at all.
      Haven't had this problem either, or even any related symptoms.

      4. Breakout Box is inconsistent - sometimes the headphones work, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the USB works, sometimes it don't. Urk!
      I haven't used the headphone jack yet, though I expect to in the near future, if I can ever find that @#$^@ MS GameVoice installation CD (MS in their wisdom refuses to make full driver software available for download- only patches to it, and wants 20 bucks for a new one).
      I've been using the USB ports for a while now (for my Sony Memory Stick reader) with no problems. Is there a chance your USB devices want more power, and since the GT draws only from the main USB ports it's not providing enough consistently?

      Anyway, glad to hear that you've found something that meets your needs.
      "..so much for subtlety.."

      System specs:
      Gainward Ti4600
      AMD Athlon XP2100+ (o.c. to 1845MHz)

      Comment


      • #4
        As long as we're in a sound card thread already partially relating to win2k, can someone help my dumb ass to get more than 2 channel output to work with my sb live? I'm using the latest crap from creative, but I can't get the creative mixer thing to open and thus can't switch to more than 2 channel. In fact, now that I think about it, I'm not even sure if the mixer is there. I will reboot in 2k and check now.

        My goal is of course to get my optical output working so I can watch movies.... 4 channel output would also be nice for games....

        I've tried everything I can think of, but nothing seems to work.

        Thanks guys.

        -D
        "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: His eyes are closed"
        --- Albert Einstein


        "Drag racing is for people that don't know how to brake and downshift at the same time."

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        • #5
          Nice to know someone else has only got two speakers under win2k when playing games. Bit naff isn't it. DVD does work for me though with the Live 5.1.
          As for crackling download the directx control panel applet and switch of the debugging this cured the crackling under win2k for me.
          Hey up the smilies have stopped working again.
          Chief Lemon Buyer no more Linux sucks but not as much
          Weather nut and sad git.

          My Weather Page

          Comment


          • #6
            Ok some thoughts.

            GTXP:

            1. The problems with games and whatnot are most apparent with the Baldur's Gate series of games, but there are others.

            2. The speed ups and slowdowns MAY be SMP related.

            SB Live!

            1. To fix your Live, if you DON'T have SMP, check out a lot of the postings at Alive! (err... I forget the link, but do an AV search for +"Alive!" and you'll find it quickly!)

            2. There are much newer WDM drivers to fix a lot of the indemic problems... unless you have SMP.

            3. There are hacks to make AudioHQ and Creative Control Center run with the newest WDM drivers, which ought to fix all your 4-speaker woes... just so long as you don't have SMP.

            - Gurm
            The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

            I'm the least you could do
            If only life were as easy as you
            I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
            If only life were as easy as you
            I would still get screwed

            Comment


            • #7
              Funny enough they (that site) warned me not to upgrade my WinMe vxd drivers to the latest WDM. I did anyway and my system actually is more stable than it used to be under Me.
              [size=1]D3/\/7YCR4CK3R
              Ryzen: Asrock B450M Pro4, Ryzen 5 2600, 16GB G-Skill Ripjaws V Series DDR4 PC4-25600 RAM, 1TB Seagate SATA HD, 256GB myDigital PCIEx4 M.2 SSD, Samsung LI24T350FHNXZA 24" HDMI LED monitor, Klipsch Promedia 4.2 400, Win11
              Home: M1 Mac Mini 8GB 256GB
              Surgery: HP Stream 200-010 Mini Desktop,Intel Celeron 2957U Processor, 6 GB RAM, ADATA 128 GB SSD, Win 10 home ver 22H2
              Frontdesk: Beelink T4 8GB

              Comment


              • #8
                Turtle Beach Santa Cruz: Why do I ever bother buying anything but a Turtle Beach card? *sigh* This is the PERFECT next-gen card. There are already WinXP drivers (although the Win2k drivers work flawlessly in WinXP), it works without a glitch no matter which chipset it's on, SMP doesn't faze it, and all my games work. Digital out is flawless. And it was $75. SOLD!
                Would have sold you mine!

                Hardware acceleration is very buggy with the SC in W2K. Lockups when playing Divx with .mp3 encoded sound or just playing my .mp3 audio files. And not just any old lockup...sound freezes like someone just plugged my speakers into the 120V AC outlet. Ugly...

                The SC is out of my system for now. Popped my Aureal SQ2500 back in. Everything works now (except I have to specify Quad speakers again on every reboot).

                The whole deal could be related to my Abit KT7A. I'll know more come the weekend when my Epox 8K7A arrives.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Few people complain over the Santa Cruz.
                  SC uses less CPU power.
                  Read this: http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardwa...cruz/page5.asp

                  And the SC costs just about 15-20$ more than the SB Live!

                  Btw, the Santa Cruz in Europe is called: Video Logic Sonic Fury

                  Fred H
                  It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings...
                  ------------------------------------------------

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    From the text of the Firing Squad Review...

                    (All tests run under a clean install of Windows 98)
                    Seems as if anyone can make a soundcard work in W9x. I'm not sure why, but Windows 2000 seems to be the most difficult operating system in the history of man to write a soundcard driver for...at least if you go by the difficulty manufacturers are having.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think the issue with the current batch of sound cards and Windows 2000 is that sound card manufacturers are having a major crisis over the new hardware model - i.e. ACPI and hardware polling.

                      They can no longer simply hog the bus whenever they like (and they ARE bus hogs), can no longer rely on using interrupts as timers, and basically have hardware that was designed exclusively to use on an interrupt-driven system with a guaranteed timeslice.

                      - Gurm
                      The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

                      I'm the least you could do
                      If only life were as easy as you
                      I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
                      If only life were as easy as you
                      I would still get screwed

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That's it..I'm getting a sonic fury and that's soon!!!

                        My Aureal SQ2500 (fine board) is going into my 2nd box.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Gurm,

                          ...maybe that's why the rumored Sound Blaster Audigy has been delayed. Could it be that CL is doing some...heaven forbid...Quality Assurance!?!?!?!

                          Time vill tell...only time can tell.

                          Jammrock
                          “Inside every sane person there’s a madman struggling to get out”
                          –The Light Fantastic, Terry Pratchett

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Quality assurance? I'd bet they're panicking because the expected predominant versions of Windows will be XP and 2K at that point, and ALL of their cards seem to have issues in that environment.

                            Come to think of it, that may be why there haven't been any more driver updates recently for the Hercules GTXP (as they try to make their drivers / hardware work properly in those two OSs).
                            "..so much for subtlety.."

                            System specs:
                            Gainward Ti4600
                            AMD Athlon XP2100+ (o.c. to 1845MHz)

                            Comment

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