Plextor America Announces 24/10/40 CD-RW

[Liquid Snake]

Hmm, but if that applies to writing as well, then what happens if the source can deliver data to the drive at 12x, but not 24x? Sounds like there's not much point in buying a 24x burner. BTW, I actually owned two TrueX drives (a 52x and 72x). They weren't too bad; they were relatively quiet and fast as hell.

[Gurm]

Liquid has hit the nail on the head. Who here has a system that can consistently deliver an uninterrupted 4MB/sec. to the CD drive? I mean c'mon - most people can't deliver 12x or 16x to the IDE channels.

- Gurm

[dZeus]

most hdd's can do 4MBps sustained, except with old drives (like slow models from 2 -3 years and further back), or when they're doing more on the HDD then just reading the source data from the HDD.

Anyway, with the burnproof people will think they can do at the same time and still burn at 24, while if fact it will probably take longer than when they are writing to a 12x writer without interrupting the write process.

[Gurm]

Also, nice as burn-proof is, there ARE gaps.

- Gurm

[DentyCracker]

And?

[KvHagedorn]

Indeed, what the hell is the point in even MAKING these fast ATA cdrws when no ATA hard drives can feed the damn things???

The faster drives should all be wide SCSI only because you need at least a 10k hard drive with a huge buffer of its own to feed these animals. And with SCSI, the cpu will not suffer much impairment while this lightning fast burning is going on.

[dZeus]

my three year old maxtor 10GB 7200rpm IDE drive can do 7MBps sustained.... and this drive isn't really called 'speedy' as compared to modern drives. As I said in my last post, you need a REALLY slow drive not to be able to deliver at least 4MBps sustained when NOT accessing the drive for other purposes at the same time (so no random reads/writes).

[Gurm]

The point is, there is no such thing as a drive that doesn't have random accesses interrupting it nowadays.

And although those old Maxtors CLAIMED they could deliver 7MB/sec. sustained, in real life it was much less.

Even today's 7200RPM U100 drives, which CLAIM to deliver 25MB/sec. sustained can really only deliver 10 without glitching out.

- Gurm

[dZeus]

then, Gurm, please explain why I can capture fullres PAL with huff-yuff compression to a relatively old Maxtor 40GB 7200rpm with 12MBps sustained without dropping a single frame... and a i/o cache in windows that's not very large as well (say about only 20MB).

I tell you, almost any hdd sold the last 3 years can do 4MBps sustained... that is when _not_ being accessed for swapping/etc by the OS at the same time. If you've got a good OS, like Win2k, with enough RAM, or a seperate HDD for the OS, this shouldn't happen. Also defragment your HDD often enough.

[isochar]

All these numbers here are sustained numbers. Which means that the drive can't be interrupted by any other large seeks. (Making the computer useless for x minutes)

IDE drives just don't have fast enough random seek times to be seeking and maintain 16x writer. (Which can empty a 8mb cache in 4 seconds) That's why they come with burn-proof...

Which brings up another point. There seems to be a lot of discussion on the "quality" of CDs when they have gaps. (Due to burn-proof or ZLV) Discussion Here

I'm just disappointed that Plextor seems to be abandoning SCSI. (I would want to buy the 16x10x40 SCSI if it was available. Not the 24x10x40 since it uses ZLV)

On a side note, I'm surprised that some 16x IDE writers come w/o Burn-Proof! (HP 9210i comes to mind) Talk about a coaster maker.

[Technoid]

Originally posted by Gurm
Snake:

Yeah, CAV. It unfortunately applies to both reading and writing... Kenwood True-X drives excepted... (although those turned out to be sucky drives overall).

- Gurm

Why, and how?

[Paulr]

"On a side note, I'm surprised that some 16x IDE writers come w/o Burn-Proof! (HP 9210i comes to mind) Talk about a coaster maker."

We have one at work and I write at 16x without making coasters.
BURNProof is nothing amazing, nothing special, not an amazing technology.
Drives don't need it, neither the HP at work or the Yamaha I have at home burn coasters and they don't have BURNProof.

Those people who think that BURNProof is just 'amazing technology you must have' I feel are the same ones who 3-4 years ago ONLY bought PC's with an Intel Inside badge on - marketing hype that the general computer owners have bitten on to.

[Gurm]

No, they are people without dedicated burning machines.

Even on MY machine I sometimes have to work at it to get an clean 12x burn... and this is ME... with my RAID-100 and Plextor burner running off an Adaptec U160... dual CPU's @933Mhz.

So yes, for many people burn-proof is entirely necessary to burn at speeds over 4x.

- Gurm

[Technoid]

At work we have a workstation with dual 10X Sony Ide burners!

We can burn at 10X to both Writers (they are on the same cable) fom the samsung hdd that s the os is on!

And we usualy burns abot a hundred Audio discs at a time in that way without a single coaster!

And that drive is also our network stach drive were everything we are working on are placed!!


And this is ofcourse on a VIA mobo with the dredded 686B!!

[isochar]

We have one at work and I write at 16x without making coasters.
BURNProof is nothing amazing, nothing special, not an amazing technology.
Drives don't need it, neither the HP at work or the Yamaha I have at home burn coasters and they don't have BURNProof.

You're referring to them as "dedicated burning machines" as Gurm said. Computers are supposed to be multi-tasking environments...

Start burning a cd on one of those 16x writers w/o Burn-Proof. Start a search for a file on the drive that has pagefile. Then open MS Word. See if you don't have a coaster.

The situation gets even worse with WinNT based OSs, since they are really big seek hogs. (Even my X15-36LP almost gets brought to its knees)

I agree that Burn Proof isn't all that amazing a technology since it may have some huge negative impacts on CD quality. However, in this world of high-speed writers on a IDE bus with IDE hard drives supplying the information, this technology is a godsend.

Technoid,

That Samsung must be a SCSI drive. I definately know that a ~2 year old IDE drive would not be able to sustain what you just said. (at least 2mb/sec needed to burn the two burners, plus the random pagefile seek times, plus all the random seeks from the network traffic) A modern 7200rpm IDE drive would probably create some coasters with that kind of load.