ATI did it again...

[Gurm]

How hard is it for you nShittiots to understand that the so-called "detonator" drivers routinely break systems?

- Gurm

[isochar]

Wow, gotta give credit to nVidia! Designing software that breaks hardware must be a tough thing to do.

I've been using an nVidia-based graphics card in my gaming computer for almost 2 years now. I have never encountered a problem (3 total) that was not solved by changing to the latest leaked drivers.

I have had the pleasure of not using an ATI card in my/friend's computer since the Rage128. However, I can easily find cases of ATI's drivers damaging Windoze OSs to the point that a clean install was in order. I have never seen anyone experience that with nVidia's or Matrox's software.

[DuRaNgO]

"I've been using an nVidia-based graphics card in my gaming computer for almost 2 years now. I have never encountered a problem (3 total) that was not solved by changing to the latest leaked drivers."

So you're saying the drivers WERE the problem?

[isochar]

Yes, I had instances where game performance was a bit too slow. On the other hand, let's take a look at ATI's latest hardware and software technology:

It took us about 10 minutes to find out that our Radeon 8500 and AthlonXP did not get along under DX8 applications. We got the 8500 in and immediately put it in our test system and fired up 3DMark2001 and watched it crash to a BSOD (Blue Screen of Death) and then reboot the machine. Now what is even worse is that the card Matt purchased, did the same exact thing on another AthlonXP system even of a different chipset. We knew for sure we had a problem on our hands.

Also crashed under Max Payne:

Also worthy of mention here is the "No Result" you see for the Radeon 8500 at 1600x1200x32. Below is the error screen we consistently got as the game crashed back to the desktop. We did experience crashing here at all resolutions with the 8500 but 1600x1200x32 was simply unable to run at all.

ATI is even downclocking their core/mem on OEM boards AGAIN:

Clock rates on our products are never specified. We can and do change them without notice. Please direct your non-technical issues to our sales team.

Lastly, to sum it all up:

We are certainly not giving up on the Radeon 8500 this early in the game, but ATi releasing this card with these problems sure makes me wonder if they have the ability to get the job done at all.

All readable here:

http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/vidcards/ati/8500/index5.html

Seems I'm not alone in my praise of nVidia hardware/software technology in comparison to ATI, eh? nVidia has their flaws in hardware/software, but not nearly to the degree that ATI has.

[Gurm]

nVidia plusses = fast, lots o' features,
nVidia minuses = blurry text, poor color quality, weekly broken drivers

(And don't think that the "leaked" drivers just FIX problems, they often CREATE new problems. I'll post the logs from a wonderful chat session I saw on IRC where some poor guy was trying to get Counterstrike AND his DVD playback to both work...)

ATI plusses = fast, lots o' features, good display quality, vibrant colors
ATI minuses = monthly semi-broken drivers

Since both cards have equally poor driver track records, I'll take the one that DOESN'T have shimmering, ghosting, blurring, dead colors, etc.

- Gurm

[isochar]

I think we both can agree it'd be nice to have Matrox back in the running.

[Indiana]

isochar, you really should not discuss about ATIs current drivers based on experiences with the RagePro. They sometimes do have problems but they are also mostly minor (and, btw mostly in the leaked, unofficial drivers). Only real problem of ATI seems getting Win2k/XP performance up to par.

I probably won't buy any other NVidia card again (after having owned a TNT), but NVidias drivers IMHO still are the best of the pack - not like Matrox where for nearly every new game there are various problems that need a new driver revision to fix them.

[isochar]

I'm not speaking of experience with the RagePro. I am referring to the experiences that reviews have had with recent ATI products, such as HardOCP with the 8500.

I do agree with you that the nVidia drivers are the best out there.

[Pace]

Hmm...

isochar: You have only ever recently used NVIDIA I believe? Whether or not, you're only commenting on your personal experiences with them, and not other people's.

As for ATI, you are using other people's bad opinions of them, and not your own.

Now, forgive me here if I'm being silly, but that's not quite fair, oui?

I'm not going to comment on ATI further, suffice to say, ATI have a poor track record, which is improving rapidly (and about time too )

However, I can easily find cases of ATI's drivers damaging Windoze OSs to the point that a clean install was in order. I have never seen anyone experience that with nVidia's or Matrox's software

Well, let me enlighten you on this one I have a TNT2, which instantly broke Windows 2000 simply by installing the drivers. Even a clean install of Win2k, then installing the then-recent detonators, produced a non-booting Win2k. Now that's an achievement...

Plus the supposed performance boosts delivered? Show me the fastest set of drivers for my TNT2, and, unless they've changed their recent "Boost the new GF in 3DMark" philosophy, you'll be showing me Detonator 3s or such, which have endless glitches for me.

NVIDIAs are rosy with the GF2/3 for the moment, but even then, I don't consider their drivers perfect. If some BBz would care to comment on Matrox, I believe they'd consider them the best

That'll do my opinions for the moment

Paul.

[Nuno]

This wasn´t supposed to be a Nvidia vs ATI bashing thread.

ATI Radeon 8500 hardware is vastly superior to GF3 in many aspects. Point is I never saw such rude video card reviews.

It´s not just Tom´s, look at Anand´s, Ace´s, every reviewer is bitching about the drivers. ATI knows it, cards went to reviewers way too late. Even so they couldn´t properly tweak the drivers.

It´s not about performance, compatibility problems should not arise like that.

[isochar]

I've been using nVidia based cards since the TNT2. My experience with them was decent at first, but has progressively moved to the point where I see nVidia having the best driver suite.

As for the comparisons, I do it on an even pedestal = website reviews. You'll be hard pressed to find any recent review that says nVidia drivers are crappy. There are bugs of course, but no one is perfect. Show me a recent review where someone experienced the same amount of problems with nVidia hardware/software as Kyle did with his 8500.

[Rags]

Originally posted by isochar
I've been using nVidia based cards since the TNT2. My experience with them was decent at first, but has progressively moved to the point where I see nVidia having the best driver suite.

As for the comparisons, I do it on an even pedestal = website reviews. You'll be hard pressed to find any recent review that says nVidia drivers are crappy. There are bugs of course, but no one is perfect. Show me a recent review where someone experienced the same amount of problems with nVidia hardware/software as Kyle did with his 8500.

Haven't you noticed? Nearly every review uses the same old benchmarks and testing. No real world thrown into the loop. This is where nVidia drivers do well. Try using the card for things besides games and that's where the line starts to get blurred.

Rags

[Indiana]

Originally posted by isochar
As for the comparisons, I do it on an even pedestal = website reviews. You'll be hard pressed to find any recent review that says nVidia drivers are crappy.

Already said it, but I'll say it again. You can totally forget all those onlne reviews.
Do me a favor and do a search for reviews of the SBLive when it came out and show me ONE that stated something about Creatives crappy drivers or the cards inferior sound-quality!

Such things only become known after people (users!) comments on various forums and this IMHO is the real way to rate a product...

Still I did not have any problems with NVidias drivers even before the first Detonator arrived and not only no gaming/benchmarking or OGL problems but no 2D problems as well (except for the blurry look of course) and I still believe (as many others, btw.) that overall NVidia has the best driver department out there, maybe followed by Matrox (but here ONLY for 2D, and still even there Matrox DOES have overlay / DVDMax problems).
ATI has not created any major headaches here in Win2k except for sometimes lacking performance (when compared to Win98) and broken capture/TVOut in a few of the unofficial / "leaked" drivers.

[isochar]

When the Live! came out it wasn't inferior, but vastly superior to other products offered at the time. As for its drivers, they were fine in Win95/98. (Win2k wasn't out)

I don't trust user comments since most are kids complaining and/or users who don't know what they're doing. (Present company excluded )

[Indiana]

Originally posted by isochar
When the Live! came out it wasn't inferior, but vastly superior to other products offered at the time. As for its drivers, they were fine in Win95/98. (Win2k wasn't out)

No.
The SBLive's sound-quality WAS and IS inferior to even some of Creatives own older products. They seem to have fixed this with the Audigy, though.

And Creative's drivers for Win98, while unlike the Win2k ones not really having major bugs still are massive bloatware, maybe even worse than most M$ programs (WMP7/8 excluded, of course).