Hifi blew up - chance for new AV amp? Suggestions please :)

[Fat Tone]

Please, don't even say the word 'sub'...

Well I got the KEF. The base is a little scuffed, but the visible parts are fine. At £40 for a £100 TSP speaker I'm not complaining. The salesman said it actually cost them money to sell it to me at that price!

Jamm...it's capable of bi-wiring....any advice?

[dave m]

Sub

Dave

PS ... Sub

[Fat Tone]

Thanks for the support, Dave - now say it to my wife

[dave m]

Sorry Tony, I couldn't resist. Congrats on getting the centre for that price.

Dave

[Jammrock]

Bi-wiring is your friend! I run bi-wires to my fronts and my center. My surrounds are bi-wirable, but I didn't want to run double lengths @ 17 m a piece. The center channel is actually the cheapest to bi-wire and in HT a very important part.

I don't know if your store will setup the cable for you, but if not ... on the receiver end, tie all the commons (grounds, negatives, black wires) together and all the positives (red/colored wires) together. Hook them to the +/- on the receiver for the center. Take off the binding plates (the metal plates that connect the HF and LF speaker binds together). Hook up the respective positives and negatives and you are good to go. Get some decent cable for it too.

Is your center channel new, or is it a floor model or demo? Speakers and cables have a break-in period. Depending on the part, 10-150 hours. Until the break-in ends, things may sound a bit muddied and distorted. Bi-wiring will also help clear up muddy sound, especially muddy bass.

Jammrock

[Wombat]

Okay, I'll bite. How can wire have a break-in period?

[ALBPM]

I've seen it stated that wire can have a 40 to 100 hr break-in.

40 hrs for copper and 100 hrs for alloys and silver.

Hmmmm does that mean there is a break-in period for computers and hardware too???????

Darn!!! another 30 hrs before my new Hard Drive is broken in.....ROFL!!!!!


Paul

[Fat Tone]

I think it had just been in the window for a long time as the base is rather scuffed. There are no marks on the binding plates to give away any usage. I'll try the bi-wiring as I have lots of this cable (I bought a 100m reel when wiring up the whole room before having a carpet fitted). It's nothing exotic, just heavy multistrand copper. I don't think with my ears/room/kit that any really expensive stuff is justified. The wire is new of course, so I'll wait a while before passing judgement
Can the average man tell the difference with bi-wiring on equipment like this?

Cheers, T.

[Jammrock]

Greebe and I had a nice long talk about cable break-in. I suppose whether it does or doesn't depends on who you talk to I'm honestly not experienced enough in audiophilia, magnetic/electronic theory or auditory research to give any great scientific feedback. Needless to say, like everyhting else in the audiophile world, this is yet another topic of great debate.

Jammrock

[Greebe]

and I ensured him that it's nothing but marketing psychobabble
(and explained what, why and how)

[Technoid]

LOL

[Marshmallowman]

hmm...on copper cable low frequency/dc currrent run through the bulk of the cable(core). At higher frequencies(RF) the currents are restricted to the surface of the cable.

So for audio cables the current will be running through the core of the cable and not suseptible to any changes in conductivity likley to occur over a year(unless you have thin wires and you *cook* your cables)

But possiblely the junction between the cable and the binding posts may undergo some chemical reaction between the copper/oxide/other metal interfaces.

This reaction could either improve the connection, or may make it worse(etc..oxide layer)
The kind of reaction will certainly occur faster in ther presence of large currents and maybe heat

Though it is rarley used any more wirewrap circuits(no solder just wires wrapped around metal posts) tend toward lower resistances over time as the wire slower reacts to the post, as opposed to solder which will usually remain stable or degrade over time.

But I would think gold plated posts any reaction will only occur on the cable.

[RichL]

Or they could just tell you the cable sounds best after a few days worth of use, so they have something to fob you off with when you complain your brand new £10 a meter cable doesnt sound any different to the £1 a meter stuff you had before.

Does anyone sell 'already run-in' cables for an extra charge? I bet someone does...

[Fat Tone]

I'm prepared to sacrifice some extremely well run-in cables in return for new gold plated cables + all shipping & handling costs - but thats just the kind of generous chap I really am

[Jammrock]

Jammrock loses his mind...again...

HAHAHAHAHA...I came up with a fun little theory about cable break-in while under the influence of ice cream and Shaherazade! This is lengthy, so be warned!

[puts on asbestos suit]

*AHEM* First off, computers and other digital media would not have a break-in period. Digital only requires a 0 (0 V) or a 1 (commonly 1.5, 3.3 or 5 V) within a tolerence to be able to operate properly. Analog, on the oher hand, is a completely different beast. High-end speakers are capable if sonically reproducing even the most minut detail to giant bass explosions. Therefore, even suttle changes in the signal can cause changes in the sound reproduction...on high-end equipment.

Now let's ponder the how a signal is transfered across a cable. It is obviously not done by the electrons zipping through the cable. Electrons have mass (however small) and are traveling through a solid metal mass, so the electrons actually creep through the cable, taking hours to days to reach from one end to the other (don't argue with it, it's true...). Although charges will travel faster along the surface of the material, it is still not "at the speed of light" or instantanious.

So how does the signal transfer from amp to speaker across the cable? Electromagnetic waves! Any flow in electrons (basically electricity) causes magnetic fields. The larger the voltage, the larger the field. Since fields in speaker cable are dependent upon whether power is applied, it is electromagnetic. Anyway...

With that information understood, we can continue with the basis of the cable break-in theory. Think of the old grade school magnet and needle trick. Take a plain, unmagnetized needle and put it on a good strength horseshoe magnet. Suddenly the needle shows magnetic properties and you can pick up other needles with it. Leave the needle on the magnet for a long period of time (dependent on the strength of the magnet) and eventually, the magnetic fields in the needle align and the needle becomes itself magnetized. For example, leave the needle on the magnet for 2 days, take it off the magnet and you will be able to pick up other needles with the magentically altered needle, without the influence of the horseshoe magnet.

Now let's apply this basic theory to the signal in speaker cable. Speaker cables out of the factory are like the plain needle. The magnet field properties are netrual and scattered. When a signal from and amp is applied, an electromagnetic field is generated around the cable (basic physics). Like the needle in the experiment, over time the magnetic fields will shift and align accroding to the movement of the electromagnetic fields in the cable. As the magnetic fields align in the cable over time, the properties of the signal will change in accordance to the flux in the electromagnetic pulses. And like the needle, eventually the cable's magnetic field properties will settle in after a certain time period.

Now, since high-end speakers are capable of reproducting even the most minut detail, these slight shifts in the magnetic field will gradually change the sound reproduced by the speakers, until complete magnetic field alignment is achieved within the cable! Will the cable become magnetized, per say? No! There is too much metal for a simple electrical pulse to magnetize the cable. Is there enough juice to actually cause magnetic field shift and alignment? I bet an nice 50-200 W signal would the job nicely.

And there you have it! The theory of cable break-in!!!

[Jammrock puts his hands in the air and does the asbestos suit dance]

Jammrock