Parhelia needs .13 micron

[Pace]

As I said before, it's too slow for gamers on the current crop of games

Really? Wait on benches. But as you say later, it will scare game/fanboys away, if it doesn't get 20,000 in 3DMark2003 (Build NV40) at 640x480x16 res

It has no OpenGL track record? If the current G400 ICD is anything to go by, and BBz comments, this OGL will be very good.

Multimonitor from ATi? Have you heard of the G450/G550?

They haven't targeted a small audience really. The main things that limit their success is high price and possible 2k/xp only support. I doubt I'll use all their features, but that doesn't mean I wont buy it. Anyone who wants triple head only has one choice (being realistic). Anyone who wants high-res aniso/faa etc gaming will love it. Matrox loyalist - what's that?

I bow down to your NVIDIA logo.

[Technoid]

[Ch]amsalot!

Welcome to the Forums!

Your have been added to my list of top ten newbies to be barbecued because he ignored to read the forum survival guide

You are merely repeating what all other "Nvidiots" (and I do not attribute that to all that own a Nvidia card, I know “nvidiots” that got Ati cards) said when the G200 and the G400 was released!

FPS is not all that counts!

3Dfx learned that!

At work I play UT on a Matrox Millennium 2 PCI!
I don’t know what FPS I get, but it don’t matter as it is perfectly smooth and never affects the gameplay!
Many games on newer highend Nvidia cards have the Accelerate/decelerate problem and that is annoying!

[Dr Mordrid]

Matrox is using UMC for Parhelia;

http://www.umc.com/english/news/20020521.asp

UMC's 300mm .13 and .09 fab was just announced May 31'st and it isn't due for production until Q2 of 2003.

Maybe P will leapfrog .13 and to straight to .09, 'eh?

Dr. Mordrid

[Wombat]

Ack! 90nm video cards. There's a scary thought.

[Rags]

Originally posted by [Ch]amsalot
[B]

As I said before, it's too slow for gamers on the current crop of games. When new games come out that would actually run faster on Parhelia, all other companies will have their next-gen part available. The $400 price will certainly scare gamers away especially since, on current available titles, excellent perfomance and quality can be had for around $200 (GF4 Ti 4200/4400).

Sorry, but there isn't a faster card out than Parhelia when dealing with high detail situations. If you think that gamers don't like the detail high, you are mistaken. Because if that were the case, all that would be needed is a GF3 and run the games at 800X600.

For 3D professionals, the card has no OpenGL track record and therefore OEMs will be extremely hesitant to adopt it. It also will be slower for most professionals than NVIDIA Quadro.

How do you figure it will be slower than Quadro?

For business execs. who want multi-monitor, there are far cheaper alternatives from ATI.

None cheaper than the low price Matrox offerings, which have FAR better dualhead support.

So, Matrox has targeted a relatively small audience,

This is not a mass market card. What's the problem with that? Those who want it will buy it. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I don't know what your point is supposed to be.

specifically, very wealthy gamers

Very wealthy? How do you figure they have to be very wealthy? I have been on the bleeding edge of PC tech for the last decade, and I would hardly be considered "wealthy".

who value 16x FAA over sheer FPS,

Correction, those who want their games to be playable with all details cranked to the max, and all options on in the drivers. That means FAA, gigacolor, Anisotropic, Displacement mapping, Surround gaming, etc. You are just looking arouind with blinders on, or are trying to play devil's advocate....in which case you are not doing a very good job.

professionals who must have 3 monitor support,

No. Those who want 3 monitor support, superb image quality, the capability of running two 1600X1200 DVI's (that is a big one IMHO), better 2D performance, and support from the manufacture that NO other company even comes close to matching.

and of course, Matrox loyalists.

Matrox loyalists....isn't that an oxymoron?

The R&D costs for the card must have been tremendous, and the costs of manufacture (including preparing the fab) must have been astronomical. Even at $400, it will take many, many card sales for Matrox to break even.

So what? What does this mean to the end user? There will be more than one offering of the card, I am sure. And if history has taught us anything, I am sure we shall see more cards based on this core.

I do not see this card being popular with OEMs.

I don't think it's intended to be. Why would you think it would be that way? I do know that when Millennium was released, it wasn't targeted towards OEMs and they sold a bundle to end users, and the demand was such that OEM's picked up on it too. But the point is moot, I don't this particular card is targetted towards OEM.

Only time will tell whether the Parhelia will be an economic success or disaster for Matrox (and I certainly hope it does well).

It doesn't matter to you or I in the long run. We should base products on their merits, not on whether or not it was a financially wise move for the company who made it.

Regardless, Matrox's Parhelia is a technological achievment that will raise the bar for all future 3D cards to come.

-[Ch]amsalot

That is about the only thing I agree with you on that you have posted.

Rags

[Logan]

Originally posted by Wombat
And the NV30 is out in bulk <I>when</I>? Thought so. Notice I said that nobody else is doing it well. I'm sure they can get a couple parts working just by luck. "Soory" to you. I also left out AMD. Why? Because they're doing a shit job with it and everybody knows it.

Concidering its not due out for anoth 2-3 months, I'm sure that TSMC will have tweaked the process enough for them to get many more good dies out of each wafer than they are now.

[Greebe]

Spoken like a true nVidiot

[Logan]

Originally posted by typedef enum
Logan,

Mind sharing any info, from what you had a chance to see?

Is it a monster...Was their CEO just talkin' smack when he stated that this thing would be the biggest/greatest contribution to the field of 3D graphics?

Is it a monster? Yes, in every sence of the word. it has 2D and 3D quality that IMO is better than GF3 or GF4 after the resistor tricks. The FPS on this thing are mind boggling. Around 200fps at 160x1200x32bitxfull detail everything with 2x FSAA in Q3A. No, I repeat, No 3D card to date has even really been that close too 100 with those settings. As far as what his almighty had to say, I don't know for sure yet. Haven't see Matroc's card in action with any demos exploiying thier tech, nor have I seen anything in regaurds to what ATI has instore. But the NV30 is leaps and bounds better than the GF4 is or will ever be.

[Logan]

Originally posted by Greebe
Spoken like a true nVidiot

If that gets me labled an Nvidiot, so be. But I have worked in the test labs at Nvidia and have had the opertunity to play with the NV30 and it smokes. TSMC does have some new process issues to iron out, but the NV30 will be out on time.

[Greebe]

LOL... yes it does label you. One because you came here to dispell what we're claiming without even having first hand experience, secondly your a nut for claim you work at the labs in defence of what we claim. Guess what, Strike three your out!

[Logan]

Originally posted by Greebe
LOL... yes it does label you. One because you came here to dispell what we're claiming without even having first hand experience, secondly your a nut for claim you work at the labs in defence of what we claim. Guess what, Strike three your out!

Whatever. You have people in here claiming to be working for Intel and other such companies. Working on Fab processes and other such things. But because they have been here awhile, they are given the benifit of the doubt as to who they are and what they do. But because I'm new to your forum and give facts and truths about Nvidia's next product which I have held, used and tested myself, I am easily concidered a newbie trying to egg someone on or start something. Well the facts are this. I have worked Nvidia, I have worked in thier test labs in regaurds to testing thier cards for stability and compatability with various OSes and machine builds. I Benched the card as I was allowed to to see how it handled relife scenios. But because I'm new, you disbelieve me. I have read company emails in regaurd to TSMC's new .13 micron process and how the NV30 is going to built using it and that the NV30s we would be testing were the first ever off of TSMCs new processing lines with that FAB. Oh, and just so you know, concidering the DIE size of the NV30, if it was on the .15 process, it wouldn't have been running at 450Mhz core speeds.

[Oboy]

First Welcome

Originally posted by Logan


TSMC does have some new process issues to iron out, but the NV30 will be out on time.

Now you are agreeing with the original statement

Also, there isn't any 130nm ready out there. Nothing, nada. Intel has it, and they don't share. Nobody else is doing it well

TSMC own web page states

TSMC is working diligently on the 0.13µm process

Oboy

[Greebe]

Oh did you just open the barn door boy... be prepared for the Bend over of a lifetime that which you rightfully deserve! *snickers*

Flame mode on

P.S. those who claim to work @ Intel are also personal friends of mine and you did just did stick your foot in your mouth without proving that even yourself works at and does what you claim.

Me thinks that your maturity level would be greater than your average clueless nit, but I guess not.

[Logan]

"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Logan


TSMC does have some new process issues to iron out, but the NV30 will be out on time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Now you are agreeing with the original statement


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, there isn't any 130nm ready out there. Nothing, nada. Intel has it, and they don't share. Nobody else is doing it well
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------"

Yes and No here. Yes in that noone else has a 130nm process ready for main stream production of a product. No in that TSMC does have thiers up, but they are still getting the bugs out of it. While at Nvidia, we were happy to have the 3 test cards we had on the .13 micron process. Granted it only took TSMC about 10 wafer tries to get us 3, but hey, they are learning.

"TSMC own web page states


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TSMC is working diligently on the 0.13µm process
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------"

This only supports what I have been saying.

[Greebe]

Keep talkin out your hyped arse while we keep talkin reality ie facts.