24 and 32 bits per sample audio question

[Maggi]

Hi Guys,

I noticed that the MAD input plugin for WinAmp offers higher audio resolution that standard 16bit and as long as I choose the standard Winamp2 Wave Output plugin (Direct Sound plugins seem to be incapable of taking anything higher than 16 bits), it seems to render indeed up to 32bits and I can clearly hear the difference to 16bit on a headphone for example (I'm not willing to say that my Creative four point speakers make up the difference too, because those are not really HiFi components, but it seems even they output a more detailed sound with less distortion/artifacts).

The difference is especially noticable in high treble sounds such as Cymbals etc.

Moreover, I hooked up my SBLive via SPDIF to my Denon AVR and that one just seems to take whatever the soundcard sends, ie. the difference between 16bit and 32bit is even more evident than on my headphones.

So far so good, now here come my question:

Is my Denon really capable of taking 32bit input or will it magically get rendered/dithered/scaled down to 24bit ?

Is the SBLive capable to output more than 16 bits per sample over SPDIF ?


From the manual of my Denon, it looks as if the amp can take anything up to 96kHz/24bit, but I couldn't find any explicit mentioning of 32bits per sample and hence there would be no real benefit of using 32bits over 24bits and my subjective perception didn't notice any difference either, but maybe I should check again 24 vs 32 bits.

If you have digitally hooked up your soundcard to your AV amp, you really should check out the difference, but make sure you use high quality MP3s, for obvious reasons.



Any feedback is more than welcome !

[Wombat]

Neither the SBLive nor the Audigy do anything over 16-bit, if I remember correctly. Creative pulls something especially shady with the Audigy: They have 24 bit DACs, but it's still only a 16-bit signal that it sends to them. I might be wrong, but I looked into this a few months ago, and that's what I remember finding.

I think you're just hearing things.

[Maggi]

Thanx for feedback, Wombat !

Even if the SBLive does output only in 16 bits, as long as the MAD plugin generates 32bit, there's more audio information available and thus it has to sound slightly different (most likely better defined).

I think you can compare it to a gfx card that renders either a) completely in 16bpp or b) internally in 32bpp and scales the final output down to 16bpp.

Just try it out for yourself ... I'll do it again over the weekend and let you know if I can reprodcue my finding or if it was just a temporal aureal phenomenon.

[Maggi]

ok then ... it does make a difference.



Although, none of my MP3s were exactly as defined as the original CD was, but still, it does make a difference if you choose to use MAD plugin for rendering 32bit per sample internally.

One good example could be "Get On" from Yello's last studio album "Motion Picture", were they generate a lot of room in sound space which severly lacks definition in 16bit, but continues to improve when upping to 24 and 32bit.

I also noticed that the high hat they use in that song, is not only some undefined high frequency percussive instrument/sample/sound (I thought they used some artificial sample or synthesizer), but it's cleary recognizable as a high hat (or at least a very good sample of it) as soon as you go for more than 16bit

[az]

I think the 32bit resolution helps the internal mixer(s) to work with greater accuracy. This should then be especially noticeable when you have the volume NOT turned up to -0dB.

AZ

[Gurm]

Err, not only that, but if you're running over the digital out you WILL get a 24-bit output signal. It's just debatable as to whether it's been dithered to 16-bit and upsampled back to 24 or not.

The KX drivers will provide real 24-bit, of course they're useless for gaming.

- Gurm

[Maggi]

Hey Gurm,

do you mean that my SBLive can output 24bits over SPDIF ?

[BuddMan]

I think he's talking about the Audigy.

[Gurm]

Audigy.