Assembling me a new rig - novice questions

[Umfriend]

Hi all,

Just after X-mas, I'll be buidlling me a new rig (as I need to give my current to my kids as theirs does not run all their games anymore, they sorta already took mine....)

It will become a "fast" machine, but I am not looking for any OC'ing or stuff.

There are a number of things I'd like to improve on my current system, the main thing is the noise.

I have a A-Open HQ-08A. I had thought that most of the noise would come from the CPU cooler (standard PIII-700 issue). But after playing around a bit, I found that by far the nosiest fan is the one on the PSU.
1. Could this be right?
2. Are there any PSU's that come without or with silent fans?

Next, the Quantum Altas 10K's (Mk. I, 9 and 18 Gb) don't seem loud when idle, but make quite a bit of noise when "working". I was thinking about buying 5.25" HD coolers for them with the idea that they might soften the loudness of the HD's and that the fans of the HD coolers would be less. Any chance of that? Same thing goes for the Seagate x15.3 that I am considering to buy.

Then, My currnt mobo(MSI-6309, ver 1.0) comes with on-board sound. I get the impression that an on-board sound solution is mediocre at best. Often, sound will be distorted as if it is interupted by something. Nowadays, MBs come with 5.1, 6.1 etc. codecs. Are they as good as add-in cards? (Not from a sound quality point of view, but strictly from a stutering/performance POV).

Finally, I can get updates to W2K far cheaper that XP Home. But I fear that the future "upgrade" path will force me to go to XP one time or the other in any case and wonder whether it would make more sense to hop on the XP bandwagon right now already. (No, I will not really upgrade, i.e. do Linux).

One of the probs is that I am in the Netherlands and availability of rarer parts (like special PSU's etc) is limited. So input from Dutch ppl that can point me to what to buy where would also be gr8.

Kind rgds,
Umf

[GNEP]

For quiet PSUs try http://www.quietpc.co.uk/

[az]

Quiet computer parts can be obtained from www.noisemagic.de and www.noiseblocker.de

If you get yourself a whole new tower incl. case, I HIGHLY recommend getting a "Magic Fleece" outfitted case from Noise Magic ALONG WITH a "Magic Vent" - the latter GREATLY reduces any rear exhaust noises, but will only fit on noise magic's own cases.

IF you have the money to burn (~3000 EUR), I can give you a link where you can get a COMPLETELY fanless, heatpipe-cooled system (including fanless PSU, heatpiped 2.7 GHz P4, HDD dampening/cooling solution, heatpiped Graphics card), that still has normal tower format and normal upgradeability.

AZ

[Gurm]

Re: Assembling me a new rig - novice questions

Originally posted by Umfriend
There are a number of things I'd like to improve on my current system, the main thing is the noise.

You 'n' me both, pal.

I have a A-Open HQ-08A. I had thought that most of the noise would come from the CPU cooler (standard PIII-700 issue). But after playing around a bit, I found that by far the nosiest fan is the one on the PSU.
1. Could this be right?
2. Are there any PSU's that come without or with silent fans?

A PSU without a fan is a dangerous thing. However, MOST high-end PSU's nowadays are good 'n' quiet. Some come with adjustable fans, but mine just came with a nearly silent fan.

Next, the Quantum Altas 10K's (Mk. I, 9 and 18 Gb) don't seem loud when idle, but make quite a bit of noise when "working". I was thinking about buying 5.25" HD coolers for them with the idea that they might soften the loudness of the HD's and that the fans of the HD coolers would be less. Any chance of that? Same thing goes for the Seagate x15.3 that I am considering to buy.

Not really. I mean, you MIGHT mask the sound a little. But those are just noisy-ass drives.

Then, My currnt mobo(MSI-6309, ver 1.0) comes with on-board sound. I get the impression that an on-board sound solution is mediocre at best. Often, sound will be distorted as if it is interupted by something. Nowadays, MBs come with 5.1, 6.1 etc. codecs. Are they as good as add-in cards? (Not from a sound quality point of view, but strictly from a stutering/performance POV).

No. Some of them are "acceptable", but none even come close to ... say ... a $50 Santa Cruz.

Finally, I can get updates to W2K far cheaper that XP Home. But I fear that the future "upgrade" path will force me to go to XP one time or the other in any case and wonder whether it would make more sense to hop on the XP bandwagon right now already. (No, I will not really upgrade, i.e. do Linux).

Ok, here is where I get slammed by the anti-MS zealots, but...

XP is faster, more stable, and has a better driver model. The ONLY reasons to stick to Win2k are if you object to activation on principle, or if you haven't got the money to buy XP.

As for activation, there are ways around it (which I feel perfectly justified using, since I own a legitimate CD-key), and as for expense... well, factor it into the cost of the OS. I'd spring for Pro if you can afford it, but the differences aren't huge.

One of the probs is that I am in the Netherlands and availability of rarer parts (like special PSU's etc) is limited. So input from Dutch ppl that can point me to what to buy where would also be gr8.

Or you could find someone stateside, send them money via paypal, and have them ship you the components. Yeah you'll pay $25 for shipping, but you'll save a buttload and you'll be able to get the parts you want.

- Gurm

[az]

Plus tax

AZ

[mutz]

...cut'n paste...

re soundproofing:

What I now have is (((Noisblocker))) - Extreme + Extreme-Pro by BLACKNOISE. Read in a test somewhere it was the best with a margin over Fleece. Since many things go under different names in different countries and from different resellers, you don't always know whether you've been Fleeced or not...

When I got this alu case I actually ran some acoustic tests on it. I put it in front of an array of JBL speakers and played the Denon audio technical CD. As expected, the side panels did a pretty good version of a flat panel speaker. With the sides off, however, there was practically no sympathetic vibration and rattles.

When I stuffed the box with all the goodies, I did chopstick and wine glass checks on anything I could get too. Interesting was that the mobo transmits the sounds and vibrations of everything on it, acting itself as a speaker and then transmitting it all mechanically to anything that will move. I don't know of any acoustic suspensions for mobos, but fixing it firmly with screws on every available point helps. Limits flexing which might lead to fatigue and cracks too.

Naturally changing the CPU HSF and PSU had the greatest effect. But going around with chopstick or wineglass, you pick up all kinds of sounds and frequencies you really can't trace, but Noisblocker has taken care of about all of that... when the case is closed...

Next is Northbridge and P. I've scoured MURC, Matrox and the net and see what others have done, and say, including the Cooljag JAC 311C. Now I'm thinking to go for the Titan TTC-CUV2AB for both, if it fits.

..or somebody says "My God! Don't do THAT! Do this..."

[mutz]

http://www.oc-shop.nl/

http://www.oc-kingdom.de/

http://tweakers4u.de/new/do.php?include=news.php

http://www.dark-tweaker.com/index.htm

http://www.highspeedpc.com/

http://www.2cooltek.com/

http://www.ars-technica.com/

http://www.hardocp.com/

http://www.majorgeeks.com/

http://www.motherboards.org/

...whatever...

I look everywhere 'til I narrow down what I want, what fits, what performs, etc., then I do google and local searchs until I find it near enough at a reasonable price. Takes time, but has been time very, very well spent...

[Umfriend]

errh, he guys, thx a lot, really. It's gonna take me a little while b4 i digest all this.

3,000 Eur, hmmm, could be, would that include a P and 2 20"LCD screens

mutz, i do not understand what u did with the wineglass and chopsticks, but I'll think ti over this weekend.

Yeah, the side panels of a case can move and may hmm (whats the darn English word, oh yeah!) resonate (that it?), and thus could transmit sound from the inside to the outside as well. It's a bit over my head though, and I guess I had hoped I would not have to consider things like these...... I can assemble a PC, but am hard pressed to make sound decisions re. those kinda things.....

Gurm, I think I really dislike Activation. I think it is an absolute outrage that I might have to dig out some stupid phonenumber just cause I changed parts in my frigging PC to get activation to work again..... But W2k will be obsolete sooner or ll8r as well, so I'll have to get used it I guess (or get a real OS). Still, I'll think about it, had actually forgotten about PA....

OK, I'll have a good read on the replys sofar, this is really, really gr8. ty

One new issue though, I took SCSI for no real reason other than that I hate to wait even 1 sec for something, and thought that those 10Krpm drives would be faster than 7200 for IDE. Guess same still goes for current 15Krpm drives, but does it make a real difference? For the price of 15krpm SCSI, I can get me big fat IDE drives. Also, DVD payers and recorders are hard to find in SCSI interface, so I'll have to take IDE devices anyway sooner or later... Any thoughts on that?

Umf

[az]

It will make little difference, as long as you're not capturing full-res uncompressed, or running large databases and the like. The system will boot a little faster, I suppose, and apps may start a little faster. I think it would be better to invest the money in memory or in making your PC silent. (since noise DOES distract greatly, even if you don't think it does)

Those drives are also awfully loud and will want their own cooling, making the system even louder.

SCSI is WAY overpriced for home users.

AZ

[mutz]

...chopstick and wine glass method will enable you to chase noises better than a spectrum analyzer, mics and probes.

Plastic chopstick or long piece of rigid plastic (non electro conducting), place one end on any part of running computer and the other to your ear, mainly for finding lower/mid frequency mechanical noises. Same with wine glass for higher frequencies.

Since Noiseblocker, I don't hear my 3 HDDs (7,200 rpm IDE) either. Almost miss them...

[Ribbit]

Originally posted by az
Those drives are also awfully loud and will want their own cooling, making the system even louder.

Not really true anymore, according to Storagereview. Read their review of the Seagate 15K.3. Although EIDE drives are still generally better in this regard.

EIDE is a kludge over a kludge over a kludge. It really bothers me how it's taking so much marketshare away from SCSI (I guess the same sort of thing is true everywhere in the computing world). On the other hand, performance of EIDE drives is enough for most people these days. I measured 35MB/sec off a Maxtor 160GB - that's a 5400RPM drive! Like az said, SCSI won't make much difference if you're not doing anything to push it. If that's you, save your money, go with EIDE, and live with the short cables and device/bus restrictions (sorry ). Anyway, any boot time you would save would be eaten up by the SCSI bus initialisation.

Thanks for the chopstick/wine glass tips, Mutz.

[thop]

hey az i'm wondering to you work for magic fleece?

about scsi: well scsi is nice, if you got the money to burn go for it. i've once got a 9gb 10krpm ibm scsi drive and loved it (it makes a nice paperweight now ). the difference in normal tasks is small, but noticeable. where scsi really shines is heavy disc access and multiple simulatenous disc access.

[az]

Well, Ribbit, modern SCSI drives might be qhispering compared to older SCSI or even older EIDE drives, but they'll still be far louder than any quiet EIDE drive (Like The Barracuda IV, Maxtor FDB models for instance). Plus, the faster the drive spins, the higher pitched is the noise, and we all know that a high pitched whine is far more distracting than a low pitched hum (not that any HDDs would really have that low pitch hum, but 7200 drives would be lower than 15K ones ).

Thop, I don't work for them, and I think they are too expensive, but I've seen their magic fleece stuff "win" some contests/reviews, it's very nicely cut to fit even the tiniest pieces of blank metal if you get a custom-fit set for for example the popular chieftec miditower, and I've never seen something like their Magic Vent (which works VERY well, but raises temps just a few degrees on the other hand) anywhere else. If you can point me to any product that's like it, please do so

In fact I own a (((noiseblocker))) PSU from BlackNoise, because the Magic Noise ones were too expensive

AZ

[az]

I just surfed over to www.noisemagic.de and found out they sell chieftec midi towers WITH full Magic Fleece dampening kits for 99 EUR! That's a steal!

They also now have MagicVents for chieftec cases - I'd get me one now if I had the money!

AZ

[az]

Sorry for triple-posting, but you can get a demo movie of the Magic Vent here. This was not done by Noise Magic themselves, but by a reviewer.

AZ