Ati hydravision: tv-out question...

[VJ]

Hello,

I am about to upgrade, but still need a videocard. As 3D is not *that* important to me, the Parhelia is still in the running. I was however also considering the Tyan Tachyon 9700:

http://www.tyan.com/products/html/graphics_cards.html

I downloaded the manual for the Ati 9700Pro, but I am unsure about the hydravision. According to the manual, it should support different refreshrates on both monitors, yet in the TV-out section of the manual, there is this warning:

Some PC monitors in Europe cannot be used
simultaneously with TV display. When you enable TV
display in Europe, the refresh rate for the monitor
and TV is set to 50Hz. Some monitors may not
support this refresh rate and could be damaged.
• Please check the documentation supplied with your
monitor to see if your monitor supports a refresh rate
of 50Hz.
If your monitor does not support 50 Hz (or if you
are not sure), then turn off your monitor before
turning on your PC when using your TV as a
display.

Does this mean that crt+tv is only possible with the crt at 50 Hz ? I have no dualhead-experience, but does the Parhelia have a similar limitation ?

Jörg

[MetalCartman]

With the Radeon 8500 it is possible to run the monitor at its normal refresh rate with tv-out enabled, as well in clone as in theatre mode. So it should also with the 9700.

/edit: typo

[VJ]

I initially thought so as well, but the quote above came from the following link:

http://mirror.ati.com/support/products/pc/radeon9700/radeon9700promanuals.html

(Radeon 9700 users guide)

And this is basically the one that made me doubt it...


Jörg

[MetalCartman]

In the manual for the 8500 it says the same (I remember). Maybe this is just a limitation when using Hydravision (which is not necessary to run a multi monitor setup). However, during startup (BIOS) or in pure DOS, the monitor runs at the refresh rate of the TV (if it is connected).

Maybe someone with a 9700 could check this, there are some poeple here which have one.

[lindberg]

Well I just want to add this, if tv-out is more important than 3D you should absolutely go for parhelia. Matrox are the only people who know what tv-out quality is! Yes, ati has the theatre mode which is just a bad copy of matrox's dvdmax feature. It's a good feature though, if just the tv-out picture would be anything.

I've owned a G400 but it burned due to some earthing probs and I bought a Radeon8500 instead which was supposed to have good tv-out quality. yeah, right.

The quality of the image I can accept but it is totally impossible to get the picture in full screen on the tellie, the picture is a few cm from the edge on the tv-screen. And if if tweak it wider (by software) the sides of the picture are getting a bit arrowed and I don't have a perfect square.

There is a overscan feature also but it only zooms (which you cannot define how much) the video but the side are just as round and it don't fill 100% of the screen. Matrox did this.

And yes one more stupid thing, when booting the computer the computer monitor will be like somekind of widescreen (about 4-5 cm missing on the top and bottom) until it get into windows if the tv is connected. Matrox didn't have any behaviors like this.

And yet if you use s-vhs cable the tv must support it, i.e. a converter for svhs to plug into the scart jack is not good enough, the radeon don't think you have anything connected. Matrox didn't cry like this, when enabling e.g. dvdmax the signal was sent on the second output no matter what. Better when it's not so darn automatic.

Matrox is king of tv-out, and the have been since the G400. Very strange that nobody can be better there or even just as good

[MetalCartman]

lindberg, I couldn't have said it better!

[Indiana]

The Parhelia seems to have some issues when using the Clone mode. The image on the TV is stuttering and somewhat "lagging".

I guess currently an old G400 would be better for this. Besides the old Radeon has way better TVOut than the R8500 (i have both cards). I would not recommend the R8500 for an HTPC system but the original RadeonVIVO or a Radeon7500. If you have money to burn , maybe even a R9700 AIW, but NOT the R8500.

[VJ]

Ok, thanks for the comments...

The problem is that I am about to upgrade my computer, and am a bit reluctant to buy a Parhelia because of the banding issues. My first thought was to buy a G450 PCI (while waiting for a revised Parhelia - with the banding fixed), but then I need to know if a fix is on the way.

Currently, I'm trying to decide what the best card for me is. Main use is photomanipulation (digital photography) in windows (=> dual monitor is very welcome), software-development (windows environment), dvd-playback (through tv-out) and occasional (?) gaming. (depending on the gaming experience, this might come before the dvd-playback). Judging by these comments, I still would be better of with a Parhelia... any chance of Matrox fixing the banding ?

Jörg

[dZeus]

Originally posted by lindberg
Well I just want to add this, if tv-out is more important than 3D you should absolutely go for parhelia. Matrox are the only people who know what tv-out quality is! Yes, ati has the theatre mode which is just a bad copy of matrox's dvdmax feature. It's a good feature though, if just the tv-out picture would be anything.

I've owned a G400 but it burned due to some earthing probs and I bought a Radeon8500 instead which was supposed to have good tv-out quality. yeah, right.

The quality of the image I can accept but it is totally impossible to get the picture in full screen on the tellie, the picture is a few cm from the edge on the tv-screen. And if if tweak it wider (by software) the sides of the picture are getting a bit arrowed and I don't have a perfect square.

There is a overscan feature also but it only zooms (which you cannot define how much) the video but the side are just as round and it don't fill 100% of the screen. Matrox did this.

And yes one more stupid thing, when booting the computer the computer monitor will be like somekind of widescreen (about 4-5 cm missing on the top and bottom) until it get into windows if the tv is connected. Matrox didn't have any behaviors like this.

And yet if you use s-vhs cable the tv must support it, i.e. a converter for svhs to plug into the scart jack is not good enough, the radeon don't think you have anything connected. Matrox didn't cry like this, when enabling e.g. dvdmax the signal was sent on the second output no matter what. Better when it's not so darn automatic.

Matrox is king of tv-out, and the have been since the G400. Very strange that nobody can be better there or even just as good

I got a Leadtek Geforce4MX 440 for my HTPC to evaluate the tv-out of, and I'm far from content with it.
It runs games at much better framerate than the G400 that previously was in the machine.

it even has a copy of DVD-MAX, BUT I can't get the damn thing to run in overscan on the tele!!! that, and if I boot up without the monitor connected (this is a HTPC we're talking about), the tv is the only output on the card, and no dvd-max like functionality any more

and there's something fishy going on with the way motion in games is translated to tv-out, as well as the difference in resolution of PAL and NTSC... need to investigage a bit more on that.

this all makes me want to have a G400 with twice the 3D power, or more, with some added features like FSAA/FAA.