Anti-Hacks

[Dogbert]

Err, guys, you're wrong about outbound stuff.

I use tiny as well and outbound helps with software like KaZaA that loves bringing you advertisment popups (just block outgoing port 80 and popups die ), it detects any spyware on the computer etc. Once you set your rules straight, there are no problems and no warnings. Call me a control freak, but I like knowing what software is connecting where.

edit:

Gurm, tiny firewall developers didn't waste their and your time with horror stories. They just pop up a question "program xxxx is trying to send udp/tcp/other from local port xxx to ip xxx port xxx" accept / deny [make rule].

Simple and (very) effective.

[Technoid]

I'm with Dogbert here...
Outbound protection is not the pain you describe Gurm....

Besides if you were to do a list of "evil" programs that don't uninstall properly the list would be looooong!

And about your "obbsession" with GRC:
Is that possibly because he is "anti" M$?

(you usualy almost fit the "M$ troll" description )

[LvR]

It would seem that around here, crap is anything not designed with only one person's opinion in mind.

SW designers invariably have to cater for "Joe average" in order to be able to sell enough of the product to justify the time spent on it.

If you don't like a "feature", disable it - if you cannot, find another "better" app to do the job - if you cannot, then write your own ultimate definitive app and try and sell that if you are so convinced that the world should revolve around you and see how many copies of that creation you will move.

SHIT!#$%!@#$% - ITS ENOUGH TO MAKE ME WANNA PUKE IN THE UPPER LEFTHAND POCKET OF MY OWN BEST CHURCH DRESS

[RichL]

Originally posted by CHHAS
Yeah, checking that little box marked "remember this setting" when you allow something outbound communication is a real hassle

Give the man a break Chhas, that is in the advanced section of the readme file....

Besides, I like the outbound checking, not just because it will catch anything illegitimate trying to get to the net, but because with Bill Brother watching over our installs of Windows 2k/XP its nice to be able to stop your PC phoning home to Seattle without your permission.

[Gurm]

Look, I understand that you can turn it off.

But it's annoying. When you reinstall as often as I do, you either have to remember to export your rule list (although I might note that recently Tiny/Kerio haven't been allowing rule lists to export from version to version!) or you have to make the rules all over again.

And it's not that it won't just go away when you click "don't ask again", it's that you have to click that for EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM that wants to access the Internet.

You have to remember - Julie uses this machine, too. She would kick my ass if she couldn't run some new proggy she just installed because it wanted to know if it had permission to use UDP port blah blah blah. She has no idea, she would just turn it off and yell at me.

Are you following this?

Plus, I purposely have OTHER programs to check for adware, viruses, trojans, and spyware. I want a firewall that's JUST a firewall. That's it. Then if I _want_ outbound checking, I want to run ANOTHER program.

I have been slowly ditching intrusive software. Norton 2003 got the royal boot because they started being TOO intrusive, TOO irritating, TOO "look we can do everything!".

Every time I try Zone Alarm I inevitably just get rid of it - although I am given to understand that it now has a checkbox to allow you to completely disable outbound checking.

But the fact remains that outbound checking is a panic tool. It smacks of Steve Gibson's "Did you know your PC could be SPYING ON YOU!?!?!?!?" tactics.

As for why I hate Gibson... he's a fraud. Plain and simple. F...R...A...U...D. There are DOZENS of pages out there debunking him, proving that he's a fraud. Real security types laugh at him (at best) or DDoS him (at worst).

He's an idiot. And HE recommends Zone Alarm. 'Nuff said.

- Gurm

[rubank]

Yes Gurm,
the world is full of idiots - and I guess what characterizes us best is that we disagree with you

I don´t care if you think me an idiot, I don´t want Media Player to update some database every single time I play a CD on my computer, or Sound Forge doing the same every time I visit a certain website (even without the program itself running).

Foolish of course, but that´s who I am.

rubank

[roadie]

what about the firewall thing in windows xp??? i am on dial up at the moment and i did not bother to install norton firewall 2002 because of this, do you think i should use it over the windows in built thing???

[rubank]

You don´t really think the XP f/w protect against outgoing connections, do you?

It doesn´t

[ZokesPro]

So most of you say that ZoneAlarm sucks? It's free and it works rather nicely I think, and might I add it's a lot better than Black Ice.

A buddy at work got hacked into while using BlackIce so he switched to ZoneAlarm and he hasn't been hacked since.

But that's only one experience. If you don't like ZoneAlarm then don't use it, but it's FREE, meaning you don't need to pay money for it! Wow!

Why not just get a hardware firewall and avoid the many problems associated with software firewalls?

[Kurt]

If you don't want users bugging you all the time about firewall settings, why in heck do you install a firewall on their PC in the first tiem anyway? Besides, what does a normal user have to do with setting his or her own firewall? that's administrator job. Don't give tools to ppl who can't use them -that's gotta be common sense...

@Gurm: can't your GF wait 5 mins to give you time to tick a few settings? Sure is a pain to tick boxes every 2 secs when you just reinstalled, but if you're REALLY using ALL these numerous programs that access the internet it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to setup everything the way it was (given you can't export the settings files....). Or tell your GF not to mess up your computer...

[Gurm]

Kurt,

First, she's the WIFE, not the GF (honest mistake). Second, no. It won't work that way. She'll go to install Settlers 84,529 (German version, unreleased in the USA) and it'll ask about a UDP thingy for her to play online and she'll get angry. At me.

Rubank,

I understand that some people LIKE outbound checking. Fine. But why has it taken Zone Alarm a dozen versions and 4 years to allow you to turn it off? That's all I ask.

As for being hacked with Black Ice - I'll believe that when I see it. My biggest beef with Black Ice is that it's unstable and support is pretty sketchy (been passed around one time too many).

Another thing that's irksome about Zone Alarm is their hack reporting is pretty lame. When one of your programs wants to get to the Internet, there's a big ol box, lots of information etc. but when someone tries to sneak in on your IDENT port you get a single line. Bleh. There's a tool - for $50 - that will interpret that line. Yuk.

So what do you people disagree with me on? The usefulness of outbound checking? Or the (proven, can't disagree) fact that Gibson is a fraud?

- Gurm

[Technoid]

Okay, prove it (That Gibson is a fraud)

You know ofcours that its "Proved" that evolution is a wrong, that the eart is flat and that the moon does not reflect sunlight

[Gurm]

Err...

No. It is not "proved" that the Earth is flat. Bad assumptions + bad methods = bad proof. I've seen that proof and they make some rather absurd assumptions. Like that the size of the earth is rather smaller than it really is. You know how it goes.

As for proof that Gibson is a fraud... you might start at:

http://www.grcsucks.com/

But then again we've been over this before, repeatedly.

The man is a marketer, not a programmer. And certainly not a security expert.

His "nano-probes" turn out to be standard CGI socket requests, his "massive security hole in XP" campaign is an admitted (by him) scam, and his name is conspicuously missing from the last several years' worth of security conferences.

In fact, the ONLY thing that GRC has going for it is Spinrite... and that hasn't been useful since DOS went out of style.

- Gurm

[ZokesPro]

Originally posted by Gurm
As for being hacked with Black Ice - I'll believe that when I see it. My biggest beef with Black Ice is that it's unstable and support is pretty sketchy (been passed around one time too many).

- Gurm

That's what I was told by my buddy anyways. Wether I chose to beleive him or not is another story.

Aren't hardware firewalls generally the best protection?

[Technoid]

Originally posted by Gurm
Err...

No. It is not "proved" that the Earth is flat. Bad assumptions + bad methods = bad proof. I've seen that proof and they make some rather absurd assumptions. Like that the size of the earth is rather smaller than it really is. You know how it goes.

- Gurm

Sigh

Why did you think I dragged up those silly examples???




BTW: spinrite is still incredibly usefull as 90% of Windows repair is done from DOS