Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

mainboard upgrade confusion!!!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by DGhost
    wow... so many things i could respond to.... where to start where to start..

    if you care about performance and run Win2k or XP you will get a better level of performance out of 512MB of PC133 memory than you will 256MB of PC2700 on an nForce...

    about the comments on HD cache... keep in mind it took the 8MB WD drives to come to the level of performance the IBM's offered with """only""" 2mb of cache.

    just because the chipset handles memory timings faster doesn't mean that everything is going to magically go faster...

    OS booting is pretty much entirely hard drive/processor dependant. the nForce2 is not going to load faster than the same system with a SiS chipset. you are going to see this performance difference when running things that stress the whole system (games, for instance) but not many other times. in most desktop work you will never notice the performance difference.

    and the same thing goes for processors... unless you are stressing the processor, you will not notice the performance difference..

    and, if you have only 256mb of ram in your system, it doesn't matter which chipset you run. you pop open any recent game and its gonna be fairly choppy as it has to swap out to the hard drive. even if the hard drive is "slower" it will still run things faster with 512mb of ram than it will with 256.

    If you wanna compromise, 384MB of ram is a good amount. that gives it enough headroom that most games (at least the older ones) run fine, but the next generation games might have issues. its wiser just to get the 512.
    sure, if you're only running windows...

    RAM does't make the system faster, it just helps not slowing it down. Right now the sweet spot for XP (price/performance) is 256MB (DDR).

    Of course will see a difference (if you _benchmark_ it) by adding more RAM. And 512MB PC133 IS slower than 256MB DDR unless you're working with large sets of data that don't need "moving" much. So, yes,then 512MB is better than 256MB. Only because it's a matter of storage, not MEM speed (since 256MB would induce swapping data from the HDD). Things look different when you need to feed the CPU with data coming from RAM (given the data is not too big for it). The Athlon has a 2.1GB/s bus, which is alien territory for PC133.

    BTW, IBM haven't been at the top of things IDE since a while ago. The previous speed champion was Maxtor. The actual king is Western Digital. The fact that they "needed" 8MB cache is to beat drive xx is irrelevant. They're the fastest is all that matters. And the WD400Jb is also the cheapest of the 8MB drives. [IBM released the 180GXP with 8MB too, but they're still slower than the WD and you can only get the 8MB on 2 drives, the 120 and 180GB].

    Comment


    • #47
      No.. the sweet spot for (price/performance) if you are acctually running applications is either 384MB or 512MB of ram. it doesn't matter what speed it is. Having more memory will always benefit you greater than having less. And a PC133 system with 512MB of ram will produce a much more stable level of performance inside games or applications that allocate more than 100mb of RAM than a 256MB DDR system.

      PC133 memory still transfers data a hell of a lot faster than a hard drive.

      and PC133 is not alien territory for the Athlon. DDR memory is alien territory for the athlon. keep in mind that the Athlon core is just how old now? and it was designed about what speed of memory? oh yes, PC100. Thunderbird processors showed very little increase going up to DDR memory because the processor was not designed to utilize the bandwidth. the Palomino was reoptimized to take advantage of the extra bandwidth, but it still has the underlying issue of the processor not being designed to take full advantage of it.

      And in benchmarks you *wont* see a speed improvement from 256->512 unless you are using applications. Synthetic benchmarks just do not create the scenarios where it would be a problem.

      Adding more RAM doesn't benefit you if you are moving a large amount of memory, but it does give the OS more memory to allocate for caching system and frequently accessed files, which in turn helps OS and application performance by reducing the amount of disk activity it has to do routinely. It helps because when you run games that allocate 200MB of ram it doesn't have to force other tasks to swap to disk, and game data will be cached in system memory, helping load times. or at least less work when its needed on the fly.

      Real world applications though... I have seen Windows XP computers that literally allocate 200MB on start up. that means that pretty much *anything* you run you run will force the OS to swap to disk. And you loose the benefit of having a large file cache, so if you are routinely working with large amounts of files it will take longer to open.

      plus, everything i have seen states that the 180GXP's are still leading in performance... just like the 120GXP's lead in performance when they were released, just like the 60GXP's and 75GXP's before them.

      cjolley - nice. very nice.
      "And yet, after spending 20+ years trying to evolve the user interface into something better, what's the most powerful improvement Apple was able to make? They finally put a god damned shell back in." -jwz

      Comment


      • #48
        Heh,

        I agree strongly with Dghost on this one

        512 Meg of ram is a MUST on a new system. While it won't improve benchmarks, it will significantly improve the system responsiveness. (which, I will add, is FAR more important than raw speed for most tasks)

        A Celeron 400 running desktop apps is very usable under XP if it is equiped with sufficent RAM and a OK video card. All games are playable on any Athlon XP system as long as you have a reasonable video card.

        It doesn't make much sense to spend piles of money going for the last 10% of performance, especially if you are on a budget. Computers become obsolete so quickly, that the money you spend on that extra 10% of performance would buy much more performance a few months later on.

        IMHO, If you want to save money, the best place to do it ATM is on the video card. A Geforce 4MX-440 plays basicly every game and can be gotten at less than half the cost of a Geforce 4 Ti4200. Or on the ATI side of the pond, a ATI 9000, or a ATI 8500LE, will also play any game you want for only a little more than a Geforce 4MX.

        There is much LESS money to be saved on the hard drive or memory. Try to save money on memory, and you will be back to the computer shop begging for the memory you should have brought in the first place. With hard drives, a larger drive is often only a little more expensive than a smaller one, so go with the largest drive you can afford.
        80% of people think I should be in a Mental Institute

        Comment


        • #49
          @cj (et al) Please read
          "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

          "Always do good. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." ~Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #50
            SiS chipsets have one of the best PCI bandwidth performance around. Very important if you have a lot of bandwidth hungry PCI cards. VIA sucks at it. Don´t know about nforce.

            What VIA have (since KT266A) is a more performing memory controller, most noticeable if you benchmark bandwidth hungry 3d games. The diference vanishes when your video card becomes the bottleneck.

            Comment


            • #51
              Well i know what ill get.

              ASUS A7N8X Deluxe Gold + AMD XP 2400+ + 2x256MB PC3200 Samsung orig. mem.

              Got them all pretty cheap so im happy. Didnt see any point putting out allmost 2x €€ for Corsair o'c mem... even thou im GOING to o'c it. But maybe settling for little slower FSB but saving a lot of €€.

              When that system gets "old" that 2xLAN+SATA RAID mobo is great for "second comp" or server.

              Pe-Te
              Last edited by PeTe; 16 December 2002, 13:49.

              Comment


              • #52
                so I'm lost again - are we now in favor of VIA chipsets for decent bandwidth ONLY if it is a new VIA 400 chipset?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Well here is how it came out:

                  Athlon XP 1700+ = $59.00
                  512 MB PC2700 = $108.00
                  ASUS SIS745 MB = $65.72 (an experiment, it may suck)
                  RADEON 9000Pro = $99.00
                  ANTEC CASE (350w) = $72.00 (that way my old stuff is of use)

                  Total = $403.72
                  chuck
                  Chuck
                  秋音的爸爸

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Well i went the Nforce2 way.

                    Asus A7N8X Deluxe Gold
                    2x256MB Samsung PC3200 mem
                    AMD XP 2400+

                    Hoping to get it soon. Maybe not the Best OC out there, but you just cant beat the specs of that Asus board. Like i said, im planning to make a server from that board when i get my NEXT upgrade.

                    Pe-Te

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by cjolley
                      Well here is how it came out:

                      ...ASUS SIS745 MB = $65.72 (an experiment, it may suck)...

                      Does it have bios CPU voltage settings ?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I don't know.
                        It isn't here yet
                        chuck

                        PS I love tracking new stuff as it comes in for a landing.
                        Chuck
                        秋音的爸爸

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          PS I love tracking new stuff as it comes in for a landing.


                          Well, hope it gets there soon (if it hasn't already got) and best of luck with the installation

                          I've done a little upgrade myself on Friday. Got me a 1700+ Thoroughbred, one 256mb stick of PC2700 Mushkin ram and a SIS 735 Leadtek mobo.
                          The Tbred does 166fsb at 1.75v (1467@1826), but gains a hefty 10C (tops at 51C from 41C under load).

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X