Yamaha stops producing CD-R drivers

[thop]

That's exactly why i bought Plextor with the 2 year warranty, Sasq. To help those poor retailers out of their misery

[Nowhere]

Sasq - not really; the reason is simple: majority of people don't know about their rights. So they give up at the begining of the battle with retailer.
Only when to the service comes someone who knows his rights (or with help from consumer rights spokesmen) they do what they suppose to do all the time...

KvHagedorn: I disagree; you're buing equipment from the retailer, you have the purchase contract with him, so he takes on the guarantee obligation, not the producer. As a consumer I don't care what happens between the manufacturer and retailer - that's their problem.

[KvHagedorn]

Nowhere, it's the manufacturer that MAKES the products. If they are crap and break, they should stand behind them. You might not realize this, but the retailer is a customer, too. If the small retailer gets pushed out of business because he has to eat every problem caused by the manufacturer, you will be left with the Best Buys and Wal-Marts of the world who won't give a damn about you and just give you the runaround and whose lawyers can beat up your lawyers any day.

You're right that the retailer should take care of the problem for you, but he should not have to pay for the repair. As a consumer you might not give a damn who takes the fall now, but you will later, and that's what the government needs to do.. look at the long term here. What's wrong with requiring any goods made in or imported to Germany (or wherever) to carry a 2 year manufacturers warranty? (FYI most warranties now are the manufacturer's responsibility unless you purchase the extended warranty. That way, wherever you move, a manufacturer's representative can take care of it.)

I can see this law, if indeed it puts the whole responsibility on the retailer, driving manufacturers to stop giving warranties with their products. After all, why should they, if the government isn't holding them responsible? In fact, any big corporation would probably jump at the chance to screw anyone, especially when they are small fry service-oriented dealers. You obviously don't understand the full implications of what you are saying. I happen to be in one of those small, service-oriented retail establishments myself, and have been for several years. We are a small shop in a small town and sell big ticket items. Do you have any conception of what would happen to our business if we had to eat the cost of a broken $5500.00 TV? It wouldn't take much of that sort of thing to just kill us.. we already get people being angry at us when they don't buy the 5 year warranty and the TV breaks after the 1 year manufacturer's warranty is up.

Anyhow, before you form an opinion on things like this, you need to take into account the larger picture. As a consumer, you should care about where you purchase your goods, too. In a capitalist society, there are meant to be choices.. choices between retailers as well as manufacturers. I will give you an example. Most people shop at Best Buy because they are trained to do so by the big money that fuels such mass-marketeers. It's not easy for a small retailer to compete if you play by those rules and don't think too much about it. But when I called Best Buy and Circuit City to see if they had a particular VCR in stock, it took 15 minutes going through the machines and waiting on hold until I could get someone who was barely on the good side of clueless to look it up in their computer for me. If you had called my store, a PERSON would have answered the phone, and been able to tell you right then if we carry an item or have it in stock. That same person could tell you the features and reliability and other pros and cons of that piece, too. That might not matter to you if you think you know it all already because you looked that stuff up on the internet, but most of the people who we talk to who have done that have been misled by their friend's opinions or poorly done websites already. Yamaha makes great products, for instance, but they don't do a great website or give the kind of in-depth technical rundown on their products that a lot of us techies look for and want to read.

Anyhow, sorry this was such a long post, but you're hearing it from the horse's mouth.. retailer based warranties are not a good idea.

[Liquid Snake]

Originally posted by Gurm
As for "rips better, burns better", I'm referring to music/video. A lite-on cd drive (not burner, but dvd drive or cd drive) can rip audio or video at 32x. Most drives are lucky to hit 8x with any accuracy.

So the Lite-Ons are faster at ripping stuff. My Plextor rips at 4X in EAC secure mode so even 10X would seem pretty fast I've been considering the Plextor 48/24/48A ($99 at Newegg). Anyone have experiences with this one? How does it compare to the 48X Lite-Ons?

[Nowhere]

KvHagedorn, I am completely aware of the issues you mentioned...
I'm just stating, that from customer point of view, I DON"T CARE about that. The retailers are the one who cares - so they should fight for their rights. Why I, customer, would be even interested in that battle?

but for example: it's very common practise that parts are sent back to distributor, even when "issues" with warranty occurs (when retailer is now willing to respect the law...). You see, it's not only the retailer who's a little afraid of consumer rights spokesmen - it's also the distributor, etc. So what? I do not care about that!

[Kurt]

sure you do. how about having to wait a couple of months to get your TV back? and no replacement in the meantime? same for hi-fi, computers, etc. plus you have to pay for shipping. You get the part repaired OK, but it doesn't include transport. Would you be willing to pay 100$ to get your TV repaired in Taiwan?

retailers are not only about selling stuff (or shouldn't) but also about service. if you wnat the best price and no service go to the big boys. personnally I'd rather pay a bit more for service as my time is worth more than the 10% price difference I could get at fry's et al. There will always be ppl ready to waste hours of their time to save a couple of bucks...while they could pay a bit more and work to generate more revenue during the rest of time...not everybody has got a good business sense

[Nowhere]

If I'll have to wait more than 14 days that means that retailer second time broke the law = more problems for him (and KvHagedorn, yes, of course, more problems for distributor/manufactrurer if that's his fault)

So I don't care...those are the things that are important only in retailer <-> distributor contacts; not for me.

Kurt - that is what guarantee contracts are for. I won't sign one if it says that'll have to pay for transport for example...besides such guarantee would also be very interesting to consumer rights spokesmen. So they're non-existent...

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by cking4@ford.com
And then Best Buy will attempt to sell you an "extended warranty" for the purchase, on top of what they're
getting from the manufacturer. So it appears that they're working both sides of the street here...

I just said that the retailer EATS the broken VCR if it is broken out of the box. That means we get shit, NOTHING, NADA! Mitsubishi just sold us a broken VCR and we have NO recourse! We have to throw it in the dumpster and give you a new one for the first 90 days (which is their advertised warranty) and does this hurt Best Buy? Probably not, if the ratio holds up, but for little guys like us it sucks when it is one of the ten we got in! Guess how much money we get to make on that $99.00 VCR, too? Maybe $5-10 if we are lucky. You can actually be in a position where you have to sell some of that low-end stuff at a loss.

[thop]

hey KvH, found a book for ya: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg.../-/0971120528/
seriously, why dont you just say good bye to mitsubishi?

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Nowhere
KvHagedorn, I am completely aware of the issues you mentioned...
I'm just stating, that from customer point of view, I DON"T CARE about that. The retailers are the one who cares - so they should fight for their rights. Why I, customer, would be even interested in that battle?

but for example: it's very common practise that parts are sent back to distributor, even when "issues" with warranty occurs (when retailer is now willing to respect the law...). You see, it's not only the retailer who's a little afraid of consumer rights spokesmen - it's also the distributor, etc. So what? I do not care about that!

Let me explain this to you so you will understand. You live in a democracy (at least I think you do, sorry if I'm mistaken.) That means the government rules by consent of the governed. If the legislature makes f**ked up laws that wind up hurting everyone because you don't care, then it's your fault for electing the bozos in the first place!

[thop]

I think you misunderstood Nowhere, he actually likes the law because it gives consumers some benefits. He does not care what the retailer and the manufacturer negotiate between each other, thats their business not his.

ps. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...l/-/1569246211

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by thop
hey KvH, found a book for ya: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg.../-/0971120528/
seriously, why dont you just say good bye to mitsubishi?

It's just VCRs that they are doing this with so far, but if the precedent takes hold, everyone might start doing this for everything, which would put just about every small retail electronics shop out of business. For those of you who don't care, I hope you are happy with the mass market drivel you are left with that people like Best Buy sells..

And BTW, we are trying NOT to sell Mitsubishi VCRs now.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by thop
I think you misunderstood Nowhere, he actually likes the law because it gives consumers some benefits. He does not care what the retailer and the manufacturer negotiate between each other, thats their business not his.

ps. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...l/-/1569246211

You don't understand.. it isn't a matter for negotiation. Big corporations dictate their terms. I am a consumer, too. I think it's a good thing to require manufacturers to provide a 2 year warranty.. that would mean we would get higher quality products. But, I will say this again (and what's pissing me off is that some of you are being as dense as humanly possible here) putting the requirement on retailers will just destroy small businesses, and give the manufacturers less incentive to make quality products. But most of you dense types don't shop at small businesses.. you automatically think Wal-Mart is the place to buy anything, so I can see how you wouldn't give a damn if everyone else went out of business.

[Taz]

Kv, I've worked for various small computer dealers so I know where your coming from. A profit margins get slimmer and slimmer the manufacturer tries to find ways to reduce costs and warranties/support are usually the first to go out of the window. Consumers want to pay the lowest price possible but there is such a thing as false economy and in the end it hurts us all. If you look at the computer industry a lot of the innovators have gone bust or have pulled out of the market, long term this can't be good for anyone.

[Kurt]

Originally posted by Nowhere
If I'll have to wait more than 14 days that means that retailer second time broke the law = more problems for him (and KvHagedorn, yes, of course, more problems for distributor/manufactrurer if that's his fault)

So I don't care...those are the things that are important only in retailer <-> distributor contacts; not for me.

Kurt - that is what guarantee contracts are for. I won't sign one if it says that'll have to pay for transport for example...besides such guarantee would also be very interesting to consumer rights spokesmen. So they're non-existent...

How many times did you sign a warranty contract when you bought:
-a vcr
-a tv
-a computer
-a videotape
-a broken Britney Spears CD
-a toothbrush...

well...?