DUAL CPU Motherboard recommendations

[MultimediaMan]

Kurt,

My Bad....But the Apollos were were an analogue of the KT-series. So soon your brain forgets.

[X-Caliber]

a_h:

you mentioned a system hang with TV tool, what is that? So your TV Tuner works fine, without a hitch?
What type of Ram are you using?

[Marshmallowman]

Both intel and AMD suffered form 686B problems etc...amongst other things.

Is a dual opteron out of the question?

[a_h]

Hey MultimediaMan!

>a_h... check out the miserable PCI >bandwidth most VIAs suffer before >evangelizing that chipset.

>Most VIA chipsets, up to and including >the KT333 could only push >50-70MB/Sec across their PCI bus on >their best day. Most Intels will do well >past 90MB/Sec. If memory serves, it all

True. Via was around the 70s, Intel around the 90s...And yes I know that this special Via-chipset has only 4 Int-Inputs, meaning you have to go for irq-sharing.

Personally I'm not a fan of IRQ-sharing, but in this case it works, so I cannot complain.

The bandwidth issue is - for me - not really a concern, because the additional 20-30 MB/s aren't a big difference, since I don't have raid or gigabit ethernet or u-scsi or whatever, what better belongs to the 64bit/66MHz or pci-x corner.

>Tyan 760MP power problems..

What I read about this issue didn't concern bad psus, because most people on the 2cpu-forum own high-quality 550W antecs or comparable psus.

Tyan didn't care too much about this issue, so I'm wondering wether they really changed their design, but I would appreciate that.

>PC2100 Registered ECC DDR blows >away PC133 SDRAM in Latency and >raw bandwidth, and let's not forget >that you DON'T have to enable ECC >Checking or Scrubbing.

Ah yes, but I never meant to compare the old ApolloPro with a contemporary chipset. Besides the PIII doesn't use that additional bandwidth since it's a sdr-design.

Ecc ram leads to higher electrical load, because of the additional chips, but that's more a academical question.

>Check your facts: Thoroughbred Bs >AND Barton Core MPs are out in >circulation.

Sorry, that's a point for you. My last info was that AMD hasn't done that yet.

>Regarding the the 760MP vs. the >760MPX chipsets, the 760MP has a far >superior 33MHz bus implementation. >It's true that the 760MPX offers a >seperate 64Bit/66MHz bus, but the >32Bit/33MHz bus is nearly as bad as >an older VIA. Latency is very good, but >overall throughput of the 33MHz Bus is >fairly low.

I don't want to compare old technologies against contemporary ones, that's of no use. We all know that todays hardware has to be better or it would be a step backwards (that nobody wants).

I never meant to insult anyone, but in my eyes this special board works really great and I can only recommend it.

With kind regards, Hannes

[a_h]

Originally posted by X-Caliber
a_h:

you mentioned a system hang with TV tool, what is that? So your TV Tuner works fine, without a hitch?
What type of Ram are you using?

TV-Tool is some kind of utility enabling nvida-owners to get an overscan feature on the Tv-out.

My tv-tuner card is a pinnacle pc-tv pro and it works great. No problems at all, the recording encoder even supports smp.

My ram is "normal" sdram from Infineon, CL 2-2-2; non-ECC.

With kind regards, Hannes

PS: if you want more infos or whatever, you can mail me too (allmaier@gmx.net).

[a_h]

Both intel and AMD suffered form 686B problems etc...amongst other things.

Which?

Is a dual opteron out of the question?

A bit expensive eh? At least for me, the power dissipation of these monsters was a good cause against them.

[MultimediaMan]

No problem at all, and I should have toned my response. Please accept my apologies.

As I think you are aware, I am also a member of the 2CPU.com forums (Same UserID, and I know what your UserID is at 2CPU), and am well-aware of the Tyan S2460 issues.

Most of the people there that got burned (pun intended), were using faster AMD processors that were MP-modded as well as high current draw Videocards and SCSI Adapters. This put several PSUs/ Motherboards to the ultimate test. Pulling 40+ Amperes on the +5V line was a bit much for a couple of pieces of 14-16 Gauge wire.

I bought the board knowing full well what I was getting into. My requirements were such that I knew I wouldn't be taking the Tyan Tiger MP or any quality PSU past their limits.

That said, there is a company dumping a LARGE number of Acorp Duallie I815B Stepping motherboards for $40US a pop...No AGP, 4 PCI, 3 ISA (1 Shared PCI/ISA Slot), with onboard Intel Video. It is 1U Rackmount-ready, and has 10 fan headers.

[a_h]

No problems here. If anybody was a bit rough, it was me.

and I know what your UserID is at 2CPU

Really? Sorry I'm sure I was once registered, but I've no idea what my user name was - would be great if you could help me out (allmaier@gmx.net). Maybe I'm going to spend some time again there...

The Tyan Tiger 2460 is a good board, for some time it was my favourite! Personally I prefer Tyan boards for smp, because they have the know-how and furthermore for them it's a big part of their business, what cannot be said of msi, asus...so these companies don't care too much about hardware conflicts.

That's the cause of getting me upset! My Tyan works like a single cpu-board and that's a true compliment. Just read a lengthy article in the german c't mag about modern opteron/xeon/MP-boards. Nearly every board has some problems with graphics cards or tv-tuner cards (not Tyan hehe)!

Have a nice evening, Hannes

[runderwo]

That said, there is a company dumping a LARGE number of Acorp Duallie I815B Stepping motherboards for $40US a pop...No AGP, 4 PCI, 3 ISA (1 Shared PCI/ISA Slot), with onboard Intel Video. It is 1U Rackmount-ready, and has 10 fan headers.

Who is this company? Link?

[X-Caliber]

"Most VIA chipsets, up to and including >the KT333 could only push >50-70MB/Sec across their PCI bus on >their best day. Most Intels will do well >past 90MB/Sec. If memory serves, it all

True. Via was around the 70s, Intel around the 90s...And yes I know that this special Via-chipset has only 4 Int-Inputs, meaning you have to go for irq-sharing.

Personally I'm not a fan of IRQ-sharing, but in this case it works, so I cannot complain."
--------------
Where do you guys get this information from? How do you find the data rate that can be pushed across the PCI bus? Where would I find this for the BX chipset? Also, the TYAN 230T only has 4 independent PCI slots (???), that is, only 4 independent IRQ lines ??? I have an Ultra 160 SCSI controller, Delta 410 Sound card, USB2/Firewire Card, Adaptec 10/100 NIC, and an HDTV TV tuner card (don't have one yet, but will soon). Too many toys for this board?

I have heard that the memory bandwidth on this chipset (PRO133T) is also bad. Would I be better off with the PRO266T chipset? I am having a really hard time finding reviews on both this board (TYAN 230T) and this chipset.......really annoying.

[a_h]

For your first question, I don't have the time yet to point you to some sources.

But at least some info may help you over the time:

http://www.2cpu.com/Hardware/mem_interleave/

http://www.anandtech.com/chipsets/showdoc.html?i=1386

Too many toys for this board?

In regards to irqs? No. Irq-sharing helps you out - afaik you can get up to ?? virtual irqs mapped to the physical irqs (sorry have to look for the correct number).

I wouldn't care too much about that, if it's properly implemented. At the moment only the graphics card and the firewire adapter share the same irq on my machine. That's therefore interesting, because some boards bios' like to do extreme irq sharing, means lots of devices on the same 2-3 irqs whereas some physical irqs aren't used. That needs not to be.

I'm sorry, but the K266 chipset won't help you, because the PIII only supports only the sdram bandwidth and it has basically the same features.

If somebody cares to point me to some bandwidth benchmark I would try it, so you can get the picture.

I think, if your system worked with the older 815, it will work with the via too.

Just my 2 pesos. Hannes

[X-Caliber]

a_h:

Thanks for the links! Please let me know when you get your Parhelia, and how it runs!!

Thanks,

-V-

[sparky001]

Is it rude to suggest a dual Xeon setup. I have skimmed the thread and seen no mention of it. Here in Australia I have look at upgrading my Dually (BP6 with Cele 433's) many times.

The prices my look weird. The AU dollar is only worth about 60C US.

P3 Tual 1.4 = $394

P4 based Xeon 2.4 = $395

When I looked at mobo's they were both around the $500 mark. Looking at the AU prices I see no reason to go for a Tualatin setup and this (link) may also be a swaying argument in the xeons favour.

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=xeoncw&page=1

[a_h]

Some more links (sorry, didn't have the time):

Infos about Kt133, Apollo Pro/760:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,9961,00.asp

An article about tualatin-smp, including infos about Kt133/KT266 and ServerWorks:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/tualatinsmp/

Maybe I find some more, cheers Hannes

PS: P has not arrived yet...hey I shouldn't expect too much, since it's on the way for 5 weeks now...

[funky-d-munky]

Why don't you get a Athlon XP 2200-2600 for very cheap and a nice stable modern cheap Socket A board.
-It will cost you less
-Will crush what a dual PIII setup can do

Pay a little extra for a high quality quiet CPU fan and your set.