DJ/sound making equipment?

[Zao]

Reason is a very good program if you want to do music but think all those Dance E-Jay programs suck.
I strongly recommend Reason, it's easy to make something cool, but still has a heapload of complexity if one is so inclined.

[Chrono_Wanderer]

Originally posted by WyWyWyWy
Hi,

If you son is only interested in techno/industrial/rave, before you pay for anything, just play with FruityLoops to see if your son is REALLY interested in DJing.

I remember a few years ago I was like your son and very interested to be a DJ, but after actually playing with making music, I found that I would prefer LISTENING rather than actually MAKING techno. (young people!!)

Kinda off topic... but here goes nothing

Moral of teenage

LOL totally agree. And that's not only with making techno music. Usually the idea of this age group is... "ok, I really want to do this." After a year or so, the equiptments are just left in the dark.

This is also me. When I was 12 I was like I wanna play piano. So I spent the past 4.5 years playing piano. Up until recently I am about to complete lv. 8 piano when I decided to quit. I am sick of practicing. so ya. only 1 more month and I am qualified for gr 12 university music.. but I choosed not to coz I am so sick of it. Ok, after a month of quitting, right now I am kinda regreting and wanna go back to finish the "qualification".

I also quit coz of the amount of workload. maybe I will go back a few months.. lol...

There you go, knowing that what I am doing is wrong, I am still quitting. The moral of teenage: chaning their minds all the time.

Speaking of this incident, I feel so bad now.


Back to the original topic.

This may not be the case for your son tho. Its like me and computer. I know I want to be an ASIC engineer of some sort. So for the past 4 years I am working my way up, and did all kinds of agressive things. My dad finally know that's what I want and decides to invest on electronics tools/semiconductor stuff when I decide to do a circuit project.

And btw he's clueless about computers. He still dunno how to start Word all these years . I don't know how I start using it. Without any lesson I just got it my self :? (probably the influence by MURC on me i dunno, but to come here in the first place--> then of course special thx to Ant, sasq and all the mods for such a great place ). And Kinda glad he understands what I want to do too.

So for your son's case, it maybe my piano case, or it maybe my computer situation.

Another moral of story: maybe not fulfilling a child's wish fully is a good thing. Sometimes that desire pushes the kid to know if that's what they really want to do.

But hey, I am not saying don't buy him the set. I just think you are a great father, understanding what ur son wants.

WTH, what point am I trying to make with all these morals

Weird. Sh*t happens. LOL

[Chrono_Wanderer]

oh ya...

just looked at the set from Hercules.

http://europe.hercules.com/showpage.php?p=87&b=0&f=1

awesome IMO!

great starter package

only concern is how much it costs tho

[Admiral]

The latest speculation is 249€.

My concern is... well, don't know how much juice these things take and I might be wrong on my assumption but, wouldn't there be problems if that thing only takes juice via the usb plug ?

[Tempest]

"Reason" mentioned in this thread is pretty powerful all right, but it is also expensive, about 450€ around here I think (I'm kinda making the assumption that you're going to BUY the software ). Has your son got any musical background, or is this music thing some recent idea that he's gotten? No offense, but I wouldn't invest very much in some teenage fad. In the old days I would have recommended a tracker program, but a modern kid might consider those a little outdated... So I have to agree with WyWyWyWy in the fact that Fruityloops would probably be a good learning program. It comes with a good set of quality samples that can be used to quickly throw together a good sounding mix. Another program that will come in handy no matter what you choose to do is a good wave editor. Again, many are expensive, but there are some pretty good freeware alternatives as well.

If he's semi-serious about it then you might also want to invest in some kind of MIDI controller. Those things don't age at all, my MIDI keyboard is 10 years old but works with modern software just fine. As stated, "any old MIDI synth" would probably do for someone who's into traditional, melodic music. But since times change, something like the M-Audio Radium might be a good all-around controller for modern music making. A good controller goes a long way 'cause it can be used not only to input notes but also to control all those softsynth sliders and knobs. These new controllers don't create any sound in themselves, they just output MIDI messages which are then received and turned into sound by the computer app(s).

Anyway, find out what he wants (I wonder if he even knows what he wants himself). Make him try out different software, they can all be tried out for free. And find out if he's into DJing or into music making, 'cause no matter what people say, these are still entirely different things. If he's into the DJ business then that Hercules thingamabob might just be the way to go.

[Helevitia]

I talked to him some more last night and we decided to get him a midi keyboard and fruity loops. Or something very similar to that. Like you said, Reason turned out to be $450. We downloaded the demo last night and damn! does it have more than I could have imagined, but not to justify the price.
Also, I know Yamaha makes a ton of keyboards. Are they reasonbly priced and worth buying? What about other brands? The Radium looks pretty cool, but in the end, it comes down ot what my son wants.

BTW, I really appreciate everyone's help. It is really making my life easier

Dave

[Chrono_Wanderer]

WAIT!!!!!!!!

check this out

http://playdigitalblue.com/products/dm2/main

DJ Set for kids!!!!

i dunno if that's what your son is looking for, but i bet this is gonna be priced reasonably!!!!

Sorry for the late post. I was reading about the intel QX3 microscope this morning, then noticed they discontinued and its engineers went to open this new company called digital blue and producded this same products with "higher" technical specifications. (lol its for kids after all)

Hope this helps

Cheers,

Ron

[Helevitia]

Just a follow up. I got him Fruity Loops and a Casio Keyboard. I hate to say it, but I still have no idea how to use MIDI! I read az's definition of MIDI above which helps, but I have yet to get a desired MIDI effect to be sent from the keyboard to the PC. Admittedly, i haven't read too much on it yet since we just opened everything last night. If anyone can aswer the following questions for me, I'd appreciate it:

1. I just don't get what it is I am sending exactly from the keyboard to the PC? Ok, so az says volume and instrument. You mean the physical keyboard? or do you mena one of the programmed in instruments that comes with the keyboard or both?

2. What are these "commands" I am sending?

3. Can I send both "commands" and musical notes to the PC? At the same time?

4. If someone can tell me or show me a real world example, I think that would benefit me the most. Pretend you are explaining this to a 5 year old

Thanks!

Dave

[Haig]

Hi Dave,

1 - You are sending the data to tell the computer what to send back to the keyboard. The data ranges from the note to the program # (sound patch) to the position of the modulation/pitch wheel, etc. The midi effect doesn't get transmitted. You can edit your sequence and manually add the midi effect controller # so that when the sequencer playsback what you played in with the new effect.

2 - See here for a list of what gets sent:

http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic/cntrlnumb.html

http://www.tweakheadz.com/midi_controllers.htm

3 - Yep.

4 - Program sound #1 is a piano sound with reverb. You play 1 note for 5 seconds and record it on the pc sequencer. The pc sequencer will record this as a set of events. This particular set of events will record the note #, the program sound #, the amount of time your finger is pressing down on the keyboard and at what point your finger let go of the key.

While holding down this key, if you also stepped on the sustain pedal and/or moved the pitchwheel/modulation wheel, the positions and it's associated controller # will also get recorded in the same series of events.

You play the pc sequncer back to the synth. It will send out all those series of events back to the keyboard.

Now if you want to change the effect from reverb to delay, your sequencer needs to have an option called event editor or something similar where you manually type in the associated controller # for that effect into the pc sequencer.

If you want to change the sound from piano to guitar, you have to go into the even editor and manually add the program change controller # followed by the patch # of the guitar sound in your casio.

What midi effect are you looking for?

[az]

In addition to what Haig said, because it seemed a little too complicated to me (or is it just because I'm very tired? ):

The Keyboard consists basically of two different keyboards:

1) A standard keyboard like you see every day, with built-in sounds, speakers, etc.

This has NOTHING to do with the MIDI keyboard though:

2) The MIDI keyboard is just a controller. Much like a computer keyboard doesn't have any fonts built-in, and doesn't even send LETTERS to the PC (it sends "character#", basically), the MIDI keyboard as a controller doesn't send SOUNDS to the Synthesizer (the PC, in your case), it merely sends controlling data (instrument#, freq, duration, volume, info on what effects to apply with which strength etc). Your PC has to make sounds out of that. You'll most likely have to load "sound banks" into the PCs memory (older high-end soundcards had built-in ROM in which they stored instrument sounds, lower end cards tried to emulate the sound via FM synthesis - OPL3 or 4 - which sounded TERRIBLY unnatural.. you most likely remember this sound from old computer games music).

(*.mid files contain the same kind of data the MIDI controller keyboard sends, that's why they're so small - they don't contain any actual sound samples. This is also the reason MIDIs sound different on different computers with different sound cards or even different sample sets - I believe AKAI's most expensive Grand Piano sample bank is over a gig in size!)

The keyboard will most likely actually contain a third part: A MIDI synthesizer (like your PC's sound card and appropriate software) - so you could play back .mid files from your computer on the keyboard, using the keyboard's synthesizer (BTW, I think synthesizer is not the technically correct term - I use it to say "device which actually produces the sound"). You might even be able to plug the keyboard into itself, which might actually be how the keyboard works internally if in standard keyboard (not MIDI controller) mode - the MIDI controller part is connected to the MIDI synthesizer part, thus creating a complete musical instrument.

Hope this helped a bit

AZ

[Helevitia]

Thanks Haig and az. I have a much better understanding now. Now I jsut need to explain it to my son

Dave

[Chrono_Wanderer]

**bump**

http://www20.tomshardware.com/video/20031111/index.html

Toms have the newest Hercules DJ set review! Well, guess it doesn't matter for you Helevitia anyways, because this is a differnt marketed product.

enjoy the read tho!