The Shit has hit the FAN!

[leech]

I think it's real simple. If DRM gets implimented on the hardware side of things WE DON'T BUY THAT HARDWARE. Real Simple. Then companies go "OH SHIT" and get the DRM crap overturned. And besides, hackers/pirates/whatever WILL get around it one way or another.

Leech

[The PIT]

Oh yeh I need this new bit of software. Oh look it only runs xxx processor and oh dear the hardware has drm built in.

[Gurm]

Like I said, how are they going to force every software company in the country to code for DRM? They aren't.

So we exercise our consumer rights. Oh, I need a piece of software to do "thing X". This one requires DRM hardware, but this other one doesn't. Which one will I buy?

- Gurm

[isochar]

Originally posted by leech
I think it's real simple. If DRM gets implimented on the hardware side of things WE DON'T BUY THAT HARDWARE. Real Simple. Then companies go "OH SHIT" and get the DRM crap overturned. And besides, hackers/pirates/whatever WILL get around it one way or another.

Leech

A lot of people made it clear that the Audigy 2 series had DRM implemented... still sold like hotcakes.

[Gurm]

Isochar,

They "made it clear"? Where? When? I have yet to see any kind of DRM in the Audigy2. At what level is it implemented? The shitty add-on software from Creative that nobody uses? I've copied about 10,000 copy-protected songs back and forth to my wife's Nomad, and it's never so much as blinked.

And if there WERE DRM in the crappy Creative software, there's always BETTER 3rd party software waiting to take its place, such as NotMad and Winamp.

- Gurm

[The PIT]

Can remember it being mentioned in press releases whether it made to the production line is another matter.

[Gurm]

There have been rumors of "DRM hardware" for a LONG time now. When did the first Palladium reports pop up?

But, to date, the only things that have any kind of DRM are mainstream software players and set-top boxes.

And even those have no protection whatsoever against the actual content... they just check for "flags" which can be easily unset by processing the media.

What the government is suggesting is that Windows be modified to not allow you to ever play an MP3 file, or a WAV file, or any non-encrypted filetype. And I just don't see that happening. I mean, I don't see it being technically POSSIBLE - nevermind having software vendors willing to implement it.

- Gurm

[isochar]

Originally posted by Gurm
Isochar,

They "made it clear"? Where? When? I have yet to see any kind of DRM in the Audigy2. At what level is it implemented? The shitty add-on software from Creative that nobody uses? I've copied about 10,000 copy-protected songs back and forth to my wife's Nomad, and it's never so much as blinked.

And if there WERE DRM in the crappy Creative software, there's always BETTER 3rd party software waiting to take its place, such as NotMad and Winamp.

- Gurm

"They" are the hardware review sites as well as other Internet-related media outlets.

Back in 2002:

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/4793

The point is that the Audigy has some form of DRM. The success of the Audigy series sent a message to other hardware manufacturers that DRM won't hurt sales. Even though the knowledgeable public knew about the Audigy DRM (read: us tech geeks), most of us went out and bought it anyways.

[Gurm]

Yeah but we knew that it wouldn't have any MEANINGFUL DRM.

There's a difference between saying "look our crappy software suite that everyone ignores supports DRM" and "our sound card won't play any of your MP3's - ever".

I mean seriously - the first actual piece of hardware that ships that refuses to play MP3's because they're not digitally signed (how it would KNOW that the audio data streaming to it wasn't digitally signed is another matter entirely) would sell maybe 5 total units before word got around, and the company would go under.

And you still haven't explained how it's technically FEASIBLE to build ANY piece of hardware that can actively prevent me from playing back my relatively extensive MP3 collection using Winamp 2.9 - I welcome you to attempt to explain such a thing.

This is like arguing with the "Echelon" freakies and believers.

- Gurm

[Gurm]

And you know what? I just read that article... and it's exactly what I thought.

IF you try to play a DRM protected song...

On a DRM protected player...

Through DRM protected hardware...

Then it'll play - but not on the digital output.

Since I don't use DRM protected players, nor download DRM protected songs... the fact that my hardware is DRM protected is relatively moot, don't you think?

Is there some shadowy organization somewhere that's going to go around and make sure that I'm using a DRM-compliant player, and that I've deleted all my non-DRM-compliant media files?

I somehow don't think so.

- Gurm

[tonny]

afaik, the only DRM the audigy 2 has is that it disables it's digital output when you play audio DVDs, this beeing a requirement of the DVD forum.
don't know about drm protected files though...

[NuGGeTTi]

sucks major dick but we are all legit... so ....n....o.....t.......doh....

[Wulfman]

what if everyone makes "opt-in" DRM available during the first years? like it is already happening (certain thinkpads, amd hammer is rumoured to be prepared...)

"relax, you don't have to use it."

but later... once there is a critical mass of hardware out there, they can start to use it.

not buying? we are talking about the average user here, the "bigger mhz-number is better"-consumer-type.

mfg
wulfman

[Kooldino]

Wulf, what xactly do you mean by "opt in"?

[Wulfman]

[edit]

ah, I see. what I mean is, that companies will "prepare the ground" for DRM by designing hardware with the necessary stuff, but allow to disable it/disable it per default. nobody will care.
when they reach a certain market share, they can easily "enforce" the use of DRM - most people will have the hardware they need...

remember the identification number of the p3? anyone still caring about that one after some years? so soon we will have some "strange" chip on the motherboard, doesn't do anything... not yet.

mfg
wulfman