ADSL networking...

[VJ]

Hello,

I've been looking at ADSL to hook up to the internet, but need some advice.

I currently have 2 computers I'd like to connect (one has a gigabit ethernet), and would like room for extension. I would need the following functionality: router (NAT, DHCP), firewall, vpn pass through, snmp, extendible (wireless later). For my purpose, I don't see the need for printserver or back-up analog modem. Some routers (e.g. SMC) offer hacking logs, is this interesting ?

Many makes offer a router (100 Mbit LAN) with built in ADSL modem. Another solution would be an ethernet ADSL modem in combination with a seperate router.
Is there any preference for either approach (why ?) ?

I seem to have problems locating ethernet ADSL modems... Any recommandations or makes/models to steer clear from ?
(e.g. the Belkin pop-up router )


Gigabit routers are still expensive, so I assume 100 Mbit LAN would currently be the way to go (right...?). Do I need to look out for anything if I want to expand to gigabit (GoC) later, or will it just mean either adding a gigabit switch or replace the router with a gigabit router?

Are there any other recommendations ?

Thanks!


Jörg

[GNEP]

I use a Linksys BFSR41 (or whatever it's called) 4-port router with a DLink ethernet modem. Does fine for my purposes and stable. Had to change the LAN addresses to be in the 10... range rather than the 192... range as default to get it setup and the modem/router working properly together, but once that was done it was fine.

I think there is a Linksys router v. similar to the above but which has a "slot" for a wireless part which might better fit your needs. And Linksys seem quite reasonably priced.

G

[Gurm]

I prefer to keep the modem and router separate - because you may decide to sell off the modem later, and still want to use the router, ya?

- Gurm

[VJ]

I was looking in the SMC catalog, and found these:
modem: ADSL Barricade SMC7401BRA http://www.smc-europe.com/english/pr...d/7401BRA.html
router: Barricade SMC7004VBR V.2 http://www.smc-europe.com/english/pr...004VBR_V2.html
Only thing: the router is lacking SNMP...


Jörg

[Fat Tone]

Have you considered SmoothWall? You can use this with either an ethernet or USB modem and then your network can be whatever spec cards you like (as long as linux drivers exist).

www.smoothwall.org - I used this for one client, at the suggestion of many on here. I wasted some time tying to get a USB modem working, but once I switched to an ethernet modem it was a breeze.

HTH

T.

edit: to clarify, you would still need a gigbit hub or switch...the speed of the network cards in the smoothwall PC don't matter.

[VJ]

Gurm: well, this will depend on both the price and the functionality. Often, routers with builtin modems are not that more expensive than ones without modems. On the other hand, you have to compromise on features of the router...

Fat Tone: I though of configuring an older computer with Open/FreeBSD, but there are some issues with that. I only have a 486 and a Pentium 166 that could be usable, but both of them only have 10 Mbit NIC. Furthermore, the NICs are 3com 3c905b combo cards, which might have problems under linux (haven't tried BSD yet). All things considered, I think it will turn out to be more expensive and much more hassle to get either one of these up to decent router speed.

I was kind of hoping for a gigabit router (switches have come down quite a lot in price), but those seem not to exist (in reasonbly priced products).


Jörg

[VJ]

Hmm, those ethernet adsl modems are ridicilously expensive... Dlink models are around €100; add a similar price for a router and then consider that integrated router/modems are in the exact same price range...

Jörg

[Brian R.]

Zyxel sells Zywall router/firewalls that are what you are talking about. Various prices, depending on the processor speed and features. They also sell adsl modems/routers that will probably work for you. I have used the Zywall 10, a Prestige 314 gateway router, and an Zyxell adsl modem (model unknown) for years and recommend them. High quality.

http://www.zyxel.co.uk/

or

http://www.zyxel.de/

[spadnos]

I'd recommend "separates".

I have had a LinkSys BEFSR41 for the past 4 years (or more - I got it soon after they came out with them). I have switched from cablemodem to ADSL, and moved, and changed DSL providers (changing to a new G+Lite ADSL modem), and haven't had to replace the router or hub/switch yet. The only component that has changed has been the "modem" - it's just a bridge between my ethernet LAN and the outside world.

As for gigabit routers - that would be major overkill, since any ADSL/Cable connection is slower than even plain 10M ethernet (and if you get to the point where you DO have an internet connection that's faster than 10/100 ethernet, you'll probably get specialized hardware).

The setup I have is: DSL Modem <--> BEFSR41 <--> 10/100 switch. The only reason for the extra switch is that I have 6 computers and a printer on the LAN (though I could use a BEFSR81 if I had one).

As for using an old computer as a router, I'd advise against it for two reasons: space and power. A standalone router is about the size of an external CD-ROM drive. The BEFSR41 uses less than 15 watts, and is silent. Any computer will use at least 50-100 watts unless you buy a low-power machine, which will cost way more than a router.

Hope this helps.

- Steve

[Kurt]

@VJ:If you want everything and the kitchen sink, that'll cost you. If I were you, I'd settle for an ethernet modem (+/-120 EUR TVAC) and a linksys + wireless router like the 8011.g Linksys WRT54G (+/- 130 EUR TVAC). If you absolutely need SNMP, I think you'll have to go to a more expensive router (in fact, a _real_ router). I'm not sure what you're willing to spend for a properly configured Cisco router.

The Linksys does all you want except SNMP (couldn't find anything in the manual about it). Its VPN is not very fast (you'd need a BEFVP41 -no wireless) but it can do passthrough. It's firewall is just a NAT firewall (possibly stateful), but again that's not the same as a real firewall...

You might want to have a look at the Cisco PIX501 or 506. They do all you want except wireless (you can always add an AP later). The PIX506 is 1220 EUR ex-VAT though...

I think you need to think about your budget...if you want upgradeability it's going to cost you a lot now. Better to replace the equipment as the technology gets cheaper.

[DukeP]

For a sure and qucik (and relatively inexpensive!) verison, grab this .

I have placed (setup is just not the right word for this) this model at a friends house. Works flawlessly.

~~DukeP~~

Alternatively, this one is CHEAP and even does a bit more - I just havent tried it.

[Liquid Snake]

I would recommend the "separates" way as well. If you ever change providers or service types, you can keep the router and just change the modem. And you can only choose from router/modems that are compatible with your provider's DSL type; some or maybe all of these integrateds might be missing a feature you need. Lastly, I don't think any of these devices have a built-in gigabit switch, so you'll have to do modem, router and then gigabit switch if you want gigabit speeds.

As for SNMP, I'm sure some of the integrateds have it. My Netopia R7200 has SNMP features, though I'm not sure to what degree since I've never used them. The Linksys routers seem to be fine, though they don't have SNMP. They do have a stateful packet inspection firewall, though I don't know how well it works.

Unfortunately, I myself can't use a separate modem and router because all of the hardware that Covad offers for SDSL (the only DSL available here) are router/modems

[VJ]

Spadnos, Kurt: I know the gigabit is overkill for the internet connection, but it would be usefull for local networking (mainly fileserver and x-servers).
SNMP is not required, but would be nice; VPN performance would be important.

However, I just found out there could be issues with the phonelines in my appartment, which might require some structural recabling... And as I only rent this place temporarly, I fear I will have to put my plans back in the freezer... (argh, this mens back to 56K modem hell at home or go to my office to get fast speed)


Jörg

[Kurt]

VJ, for gigabit, you'll HAVE to get a spearate switch. the gateways that are not specifically designed for gigabit don't have it. Get a cheap netgear 8 port GbE switch and a linksys BEFVP41. If you absolutely need wireless you're stuck with the linksys WRT54G and its not-stellar VPN performance (it's OK for a few connections though not like the BEFVP41 -absolute joy to work with for the small VPN networks). you can always add an AP later on or there will be a new solution then...

[MultimediaMan]

Chiming in here:

Smoothwall Express is getting to be quite mature: RC1 "Deltric" is due in 10-12 days.

Many people, such as myself, keep clamoring for a possible Fourth Connection to be used for Wireless, be it a Wireless adapter or a Copper adapter terminated with a dumb Bridge/Repeater.

I am still running Smoothwall as my Standalone box, but on another Box running a couple of different distros, I have been hacking on here and there to get a Five Adapter box running.

Slightly OT: I've been casually experimenting with a five adapter rig using a couple of Distros (RedHat and Slackware), and it is NOT that hard to do, the trick will be keeping it small and getting better Wireless adapter support.

However, the CPU overhead with WEP/WAP, VPN and whatever other encryption you may want to run in the Wireless Interface will tend to raise the bar on the hardware requirements.

What I'm looking to do is as follows:

Two Red Interfaces: Ethernet (eth3) for the Cable Modem, with Dialup Modem (ppp0) as a backup. (Automatic Failover is stumping me.)

An Orange Interface: A DMZ segment with DHCP, unlike Smoothwall Express (eth2).

A Blue or Purple Interface: Wireless Adapter with WEP, ACLs, 192Bit Encryption and MD5-based security (eth1).

And Finally the Green Interface: Private LAN (eth0).

I'm also looking at the possibility of setting up such an arrangement on a standalone Win2K3 Box. Win2K3's Wireless support is really good, and subnetting is a snap in Windows.