3rd Party 3D IHV

[UtwigMU]

Originally posted by Chrono_Wanderer
I won't try anything Matrox, given their current "excellent" drivers and numerous problems on the first Parhelia batches.

Sorry, to ask, but do you actually own Parhelia and can comment on excellent drivers?

To date I had no problem or BSOD I could attribute to Parhelia drivers. Heck, even fastwrites work, now that Tyan has released new BIOS.

[gt40]

Matrox rocks
Haig for president.
Games are for kids.
did I miss anthing?

[bsdgeek]

QuakewigMU,

I personally wouldn't buy XGI (this really goes without saying), but S3 & PowerVR I would definitely give a chance.

I'm on the fence for 3DLabs, they would have to totally refocus their drivers towards gaming. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a wise decision, IMO.

As for Matrox, well unless they suddenly pull a 180 and release something really worthwhile, I would say no. And knowing what I know now, I wouldn't buy Parhelia again.

[UtwigMU]

I mean you people are considering PowerVR and S3 and then complain about Matrox drivers and Parhelia. I'm not saying that Parhelia games support is best (considering Ati or nVidia - but they too have problems and impartial knowlegdable people are still not happy with Ati drivers).

But do you expect all your games to work with Deltachrome, do you expect the same level of tech support you get from Matrox?

[bsdgeek]

Originally posted by MEsdgeek
BTW, does anyone know if new S3 got the tattered remains of old Diamond & #9 or did that stay with SONICBlue? (Read: capability to build own boards, integrate Beatles references, excellent 2D quality. Okay that was more #9 than Diamond.)

http://www.siliconspectrum.com/about.htm

Those guys got #9's stuff/IP, and apparently Diamond stayed with SONICBlue to be bought by Best Data or some such nonsense.

[bsdgeek]

Something brewing at 3DLabs. (PDF)

[Nappe1]

Originally posted by GNEP
Where are teh BitBoys?

on top of my center speaker. another one? it's in antistatic bag in safe place.

as a company? naah, you would not ask about that... who actually cares where are they... obiously it is not near to desktop market anyways.

[Nappe1]

right now, I believe that no one can really challenge ATI and nVidia on High End.
- S3 is still too slow on development. (Delta Chromes are more than 6 months late already.)
- XGI is coming, but not yet this year. they need few generations more to learn how to make bilinear right.
- 3DLabs? well, I seriously doubt their motivation creating features optimized for gaming in competitive form... they are pretty much professional side company.
- Matrox burned their fingers completely with Parhelia. Maybe some day, but not this year.
- PowerVR series 5? well, it sounds good on paper, but will it make it to market is completely different thing. And if it does, will it be just only visit again, or do they have plans to do something to stay there?
- Intel is happy with their Xtreme (shitty) Graphics, so no to High End. (in low end they are in top 3 already.)


of course I am happy to be prooven wrong in this case...

[Kurt]

XGI looks to have interesting stuff coming in 2005...

Matrox is the only one I see with a possibility to have a shot at the mid-end with a fixed/clocked-up P8X. They probably won't be in a good financial shape to do anything...and they probably won't _want_ to do anything...

S3's been releasing various "super" 3D accelerators for years, none's been up to the semi-hype they wanted to create...

[az]

Matrox wouldn't want to release a midrange card - their Px50s are already more expensive than that hypothetical faster card would need to be to be competitive. They have long ago decided to leave the gaming sector. The only advantage they have over the competition is that they STILL got a good name, which they're going to lose should they try and fail to deliver in the 3D performance market again.

I agree with Nappe, no one will be able to really compete in the high end.

A way for Matrox might be to release full chip/card specs for the OS enthusiasts (the resulting good drivers might well win them a few OEM deals), and they should try and do a mobile chip again (and this time deliver), because that market's really growing, and 3D performance isn't the #1 criterion there.

AZ

[Ribbit]

Originally posted by bsdgeek
Something brewing at 3DLabs. (PDF)

This is about the OpenGL shading language (OpenGL's answer to the new features in Direct3D 8+), which 3DLabs have played a big (if not the main) part in defining and developing. It's only natural that they'd be doing training/promotion of this, and I don't think you can read this as meaning they have any new hardware coming. In fact, they already have the hardware - the P9 and P10 were specifically designed around this stuff. They just don't do it all that fast

But interesting to see, nonetheless.

Originally posted by Kurt
S3's been releasing various "super" 3D accelerators for years, none's been up to the semi-hype they wanted to create...

True, but you've gotta admit the DeltaChrome's not looking bad.... R9600-level performance for less money, free 16x anisotropy (or whatever it is that's free), great rendering quality, plus the HDTV encoder and extra video processing features. All they have to do - and I realise these are somewhat contradictory - is get the damn thing out SOON (without the TM) and not screw it up like they did with the Savage (which would otherwise have been a pretty good chip).

[bsdgeek]

Future 3Dlabs Products
In the near future, 3Dlabs will be announcing products based on a new
graphics architecture
These products will be the first that we’ve designed completely since
the OpenGL Shading Language came into existence
“No Boundaries” support for the OpenGL Shading Language
Highly parallel, scalable architecture
Continued emphasis on quality and precision
World leadership application and benchmark performance
Support for large memory configurations
More mature GLSL compiler
Driver will combine the best of Wildcat4 and Wildcat VP drivers
Much more information

It's near the end.

[Ribbit]

Stupid GPDF screws up about halfway through the document....

Although I wonder what will be in this "new" architecture - the P10 was already very different from anything that had come before it, and was pretty clearly made with some future OpenGL shading language in mind. We shall see....

[UtwigMU]

If you're really curious, go to opengl.org and check out ARB meeting logs, see how each company voted on features.

[Kurt]

@az: midrange is where the money lies. like for the P128, if the new card is a good performer, even if it's a bit more expensive than an ATi or NV card, it will have a bright future.

@Ribbit: S3 will be delivering what ATi has been selling for a long time. It's not out yet and it's not debugged either. Who knows what the coming generation of chips will do? Maybe they'll beat S3 at a lower price too...