Goodbye to quality CRTs

[Helevitia]

I was just thinking about this yesterday. As soon as the socket 939's make their way to the stores, I am going to upgrade. I was thinking how crappy LCD's really are and how I better buy 2 CRT's so I can have 3-5 years of enjoyment left. Hopefully by then the serious issues of LCD's will be fixed. My biggest gripe is how crappy the screen looks in anything other than the native resolution.

Last night, at my buddies house, I was looking at his LCD and the first thig I did was change it to 1024x768(down from 1280x1024 native) and it was so horrible that I couldn't even believe people accept that. What happens when you play a game that isn't in the native resolution? It must either upconvert of use 25% less screen? Help me understand.

The second issue was how you could see the backlights! I could see them in the top right and lower left corners easily in a semi lit room.

The ghosting. OMG! I'd rather poke my eyes out with a pencil then watch the streaking and ghosting. Yes, it was that bad. I don't knwo what the ms was but it wasn't good.

And something that I didn't think was an issue is the refresh rate. I can honestly say that I see something...flicker? I don't know what to call it, but it was definitely noticable to the point where I was getting a headache within 20 minutes. It went away when I changed the refresh rate to 75.

God, LCD's suck so bad. I mean, even the colors look like crap. Sure, they are bright and vivid but even moving slightly to the side makes the suckass colors even less appealing.

I am seriously going to by two CRT's before the end of the year. What do you all think of the Cornerstone P1750s?

Dave

[The PIT]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
Color and detail are both crappy.

Colour thats why I mentioned no good for photos.

Detail?? I disagree as most crt suffer from blurry graphics in some or all parts of the screen unless you're very very lucky.

The iilyama vision master pro 512 I just sold is useless above 85hz. It's predesscor was much better either and the NEC 19inch I just sold as well suffered from convergence problems which could adjusted but not fully.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
The lowest common denominator I'm talking about are those who think a flat panel is so cool, and are so tasteless that they don't realize or even care that they are paying much more money for a much poorer quality picture. People are morons.

Nope you just like blurry graphics, distorted geometry, flickering screens and damaged eye sight.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Helevitia
I was just thinking about this yesterday. As soon as the socket 939's make their way to the stores, I am going to upgrade. I was thinking how crappy LCD's really are and how I better buy 2 CRT's so I can have 3-5 years of enjoyment left. Hopefully by then the serious issues of LCD's will be fixed. My biggest gripe is how crappy the screen looks in anything other than the native resolution.

Last night, at my buddies house, I was looking at his LCD and the first thig I did was change it to 1024x768(down from 1280x1024 native) and it was so horrible that I couldn't even believe people accept that. What happens when you play a game that isn't in the native resolution? It must either upconvert of use 25% less screen? Help me understand.

The second issue was how you could see the backlights! I could see them in the top right and lower left corners easily in a semi lit room.

The ghosting. OMG! I'd rather poke my eyes out with a pencil then watch the streaking and ghosting. Yes, it was that bad. I don't knwo what the ms was but it wasn't good.

And something that I didn't think was an issue is the refresh rate. I can honestly say that I see something...flicker? I don't know what to call it, but it was definitely noticable to the point where I was getting a headache within 20 minutes. It went away when I changed the refresh rate to 75.

God, LCD's suck so bad. I mean, even the colors look like crap. Sure, they are bright and vivid but even moving slightly to the side makes the suckass colors even less appealing.

I am seriously going to by two CRT's before the end of the year. What do you all think of the Cornerstone P1750s?

Dave

Some of the above I agree with some of it's rubbish.

Ghosting chose your model and you won't see it. Buy cheapo shit cause you see ghosting.

Back lights yes and no depends on the model. I don't see it on my Samsung but I see it on DELL if I got a black screen i.e boot up or watching an dvd in poor light but it doesn't interfer with the movie. But other reviews have said they couldn't see the back light.

Colours from the side just checked on my dell and they look fine and my samsung and they're fine at angles. You must be looking a cheapo models or older 2nd hand units.

If you're getting a headache I suggest an eye test becuase theres something fishy there. Like some people can see the flickering of flourescent lights. You shouldn't see any shimmering or flickering.

[skinrock]

I have a 40 inch plasma for watching TV, and it's not incredibly great for regular channels. There are a lot of blocky edges during movement on the screen, but then again you only notice it if you're within 7 feet of the screen, however not everyone has 20-30 feet of room to sit from their TV. On DVD's it looks great, it also sends out a great 5.1 signal, even on regular cable TV. I guess there is this encoder that will create HDTV like signals from your cable box to the plasma, but I haven't seen it yet. Plasma will be the next big thing when HDTV is widely available.

[William]

That makes me think of an amusing problem we had once -someone was complaining about an LED flickering; so we upped the frequency that we were driving it at. Some people see LED flicker more than others. They complained again; we upped the frequency again....

Next time they complained; we put it on a (constant) DC supply. They complained that it flickered... Needless to say, the LED went back to its original frequency and not a peep more was heard in complaint ever again :-D

[spadnos]

Originally posted by The PIT
[snip]
If you're getting a headache I suggest an eye test becuase theres something fishy there. Like some people can see the flickering of flourescent lights. You shouldn't see any shimmering or flickering.

Actually, LCD's all scan at some fairly quick rate. The "refresh" from the computer isn't necessarily related to the "refresh" of the LCD itself.

An LCD pixel isn't generally driven with a DC voltage - there's a specific waveform that has to be used which includes positive and negative voltages. Usually, the LCD controllers are configured as two types of chip - the row driver and the column driver. For smaller displays, rows are usually updated at 32KHz or so. That's 32000 rows per second, so if you're using a 320-pixel high screen, it's 100 full updates per second.

I'm sure that the larger displays use much higher frequencies (also, they're sometimes divided into several regions, each driven by its own set of chips), but there can still be a refresh problm on LCD's.

- Steve

[Helevitia]

Originally posted by The PIT
If you're getting a headache I suggest an eye test becuase theres something fishy there. Like some people can see the flickering of flourescent lights. You shouldn't see any shimmering or flickering.

I can see flickering of flourescent lights easily. Actually, that is exactly what the LCD screen looks like to me.

[xortam]

It sounds like you people are looking at crappy LCDs. About the only problems you should run into are contrast levels and SDE (Screen Door Effect) when you're too close to the screen. Sub-17 ms response times will eliminate any ghosting on LCDs. AFA displays in general (not just computer), most all of them are subject to burn-in, except for DLP and LCoS ... even LCD has potential for browning and retention--effectively burn-in (un-relaxed crystals). Plasmas have similar issues (burn-in, SDE, contrast). A good scaler will adequately compensate for non-native resolutions. Desktop PC displays are usually CRT or LCD ... no plasmas and such. I would hope that we'll still have CRT offerings there to address the shortcomings of LCD. The vast majority of users don't need CRT so LCD is an attractive alternative. LCDs are taking over the small TV market from CRT direct view but probably will top off at about 45". Plasmas are good for the mid-sized TVs. Larger TVs will be delegated to FP or RP DLP, LCoS, and other emerging technologies.

[rylan]

LCD quality varies -massively- between glass technologies, with respect to brightness, contrast, response time, image sticking, and accurate color reproduction. If you can see flicker then you are either driving it with a analog signal, or the backlight inverter and bulbs are a piece of crap.
LCDs are superior to CRT in brightness, distortion and viewing angle and eye strain. CRT wins with response time, color saturation/reproduction and resolution scaling.

[DentyCracker]

For the frickin price that I'm willing to pay, LCD's SUCK ASS. I am happy with my current setup. Give me a pretty picture that doesn't change when I change position that is rock solid at 100Hz on my Parhelia with maybe slightly distorted geometry over any of those SUCKASS LCDs with their perfect geometry. Pffffft!!!!

[Greebe]

Originally posted by Helevitia I am seriously going to by two CRT's before the end of the year. What do you all think of the Cornerstone P1750s?

Dave

Haven't seen one in action, but CADalist really like it...

http://www.cadalyst.com/cadalyst/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=79201

[Jon P. Inghram]

Going along with the lowest common denominator thing, is the classic 60 Hz issue in Win2k and XP. I imagine there are plenty of people who buy LCD's because because the "crappy" CRT monitor they had before flickered due to Windows defaulting to 60 Hz.

If you've got limited desk space or go to LAN parties a lot an LCD is awesome though.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Helevitia
Last night, at my buddies house, I was looking at his LCD and the first thig I did was change it to 1024x768(down from 1280x1024 native) and it was so horrible that I couldn't even believe people accept that.

People accept a lot of crap now that they would not have 50 years ago. A CRT that dies in 3 years? That puppy had better last 20! Crappy picture? I'm not paying a premium for that! Nowadays people just put up with anything the megacorps deal them, because there is no effective competition. Megacorps are essentially communist big brother.

[rylan]

Well we all put up with Micro$oft, so everyone else figures they can sell us crap at Wallmart too.