USB/Firewire HD question on older systems

[Helevitia]

Greetings all,

I'm adding HD space to a clients computer. It is an older Gateway. Specs can be found at the URL below:

http://support.gateway.com/support/srt/docs.asp?sn=0018322305

He is running Win98(not SE). I know there are HD limitations between the BIOS and OS. My client wants to install a 250GB HD for DVD video and pictures. I'm thinking it will be huge hassle to install the drive in the system with the limitations.

Here are my questions:

1. If I install a USB/Firewire card in the system, will I run into the HD limitation? Or does that only exist when using IDE?

2. Assuming I go the USB/Firewire route, can I use that external drive to burn DVD's to, or is it to slow? Will I run into burning problems burning to the external drive?

3. He has 2 USB ports on the system. I'm thinking they are USB 1.1 since the sysetm was made in 2000. Assuming they were USB2.0 and he is running Win98, is there anything I need to worry about for compatibility reasons?

Thanks!
Dave

[Wombat]

If you install a USB/firewire card in the system, you'll run into the problem that W98 original doesn't support USB or firewire.

He doesn't have USB2.0. In which case, HD access via USB is very slow.

What do you mean by burning? You said it's a HD. In other words, Question 2 doesn't make sense.

[Ribbit]

IIRC, USB2.0 drivers don't exist for earlier than Win2K.

[Jammrock]

Re: USB/Firewire HD question on older systems

Originally posted by Helevitia
1. If I install a USB/Firewire card in the system, will I run into the HD limitation? Or does that only exist when using IDE?

2. Assuming I go the USB/Firewire route, can I use that external drive to burn DVD's to, or is it to slow? Will I run into burning problems burning to the external drive?

3. He has 2 USB ports on the system. I'm thinking they are USB 1.1 since the sysetm was made in 2000. Assuming they were USB2.0 and he is running Win98, is there anything I need to worry about for compatibility reasons?

Thanks!
Dave

1. I think, and it's been a long time since I've dinked with Win98, that there is a USB patch/update for regular windows 98. A USB PCI card should have the driver/patch for win98. At least look on the box and see what OS's it supports, and if it says Windows 98 ... then I would guess the driver is on the CD. However...the fastest you are going to go is USB 1.1 speads, 11 Mbps, which will be okay for pictures, but not so good for DVD video (if it works well at all).

2. If you manually turn down the burn speed it should work fine. Programs like Nero and Roxio Easy Media will allow you to run simulated burns to determine your max burn speeds. With USB 1.1 (your limit for Win98) you'll max at 4x-8x on CD-R and if you're lucky, 1x on DVD-R(W).

3. In 2000, USB 2.0 was not very widely integrated onto to mobo's (don't even know if it was out by then now that I think about it). My guess would be USB 1.1, which if that's what he's using and won't get rid of Win98, there would be no reason for a USB 2.0 upgrade.

However, if you upgrade the OS (Win98SE, WinMe, or WinXP Home), you're options open up. You can go with Firewire 800 (2, IEEE 1394b, etc) and get IDE/ATA133 speeds off an external device. This would mean you could do video editing, DVD video stream, pictures and anything else a normal IDE device could do and keep it all external. Firewire is, after all, a far superior technology for high-speed data transactions... until SATA 2.0 and SAS comes out

Jammrock

[Helevitia]

Originally posted by Wombat
What do you mean by burning? You said it's a HD. In other words, Question 2 doesn't make sense.

When he copies data from a CD/DVD drive, it copies to the HD first, then to his DVD burner. He only has 6GB left on his 10GB drive and Nero tells him he needs 7.xGB to complete the burn/copy or whatever it is doing. Not sure why it needs 7.XGB when it is only a 4.7GB DVD? Anyone know?

[Helevitia]

Re: Re: USB/Firewire HD question on older systems

Originally posted by Jammrock
1. I think, and it's been a long time since I've dinked with Win98, that there is a USB patch/update for regular windows 98. A USB PCI card should have the driver/patch for win98. At least look on the box and see what OS's it supports, and if it says Windows 98 ... then I would guess the driver is on the CD. However...the fastest you are going to go is USB 1.1 speads, 11 Mbps, which will be okay for pictures, but not so good for DVD video (if it works well at all).

2. If you manually turn down the burn speed it should work fine. Programs like Nero and Roxio Easy Media will allow you to run simulated burns to determine your max burn speeds. With USB 1.1 (your limit for Win98) you'll max at 4x-8x on CD-R and if you're lucky, 1x on DVD-R(W).

3. In 2000, USB 2.0 was not very widely integrated onto to mobo's (don't even know if it was out by then now that I think about it). My guess would be USB 1.1, which if that's what he's using and won't get rid of Win98, there would be no reason for a USB 2.0 upgrade.

However, if you upgrade the OS (Win98SE, WinMe, or WinXP Home), you're options open up. You can go with Firewire 800 (2, IEEE 1394b, etc) and get IDE/ATA133 speeds off an external device. This would mean you could do video editing, DVD video stream, pictures and anything else a normal IDE device could do and keep it all external. Firewire is, after all, a far superior technology for high-speed data transactions... until SATA 2.0 and SAS comes out

Jammrock

Man, I'm trying to avoid doing any kind of OS upgrade. I'm doing this as a favor and I can see this turning into a nightmare. I think I'm just going to tell him that he is limited to upgrading a 80GB drive(I'm thinking the BIOS+FDISK+FORMAT= 64GB limitation). AFAIK Win98 is 127GB limitation.

I just thought of another problem though I think he has 3 IDE connectors and he is using all 3.

OK, so it looks like my options are:

1. Hope there is a 4th IDE connector and upgrade to a smaller drive.

2. Upgrade the OS and put in bigger drive(but I may be limited because of the BIOS

3. I dunno Maybe put in a 60GB drive and transer all of the data+OS to the new drive and get ride of the old one?

Thanks for all of the help guys.

Dave

[Wombat]

3 connectors? That would be unusual. 2 or 4 (and thus 4 or 8 drives, though things like CD-ROMs from back then are a tad tempermental/greedy).

Also, the HD limitation is part of the BIOS, not Win98.

One reason that he might have trouble burning DVDs is that the maximum file size for Win98 is 4GB. So he will not be able to create single-file images of his DVDs.

[mmp121]

Why not just get him a PCI IDE controller card to bypass the BIOS limitaion ? You can probably bypass the OS limitation by partitioning the drive into segments, say 100GB each? Wouldn'
t that be a better "fix" ?

[DirtFarmer]

If your looking for HD Space than mmp121 suggestion is the most reasonable. I think most USB2 or Firewire cards require 98SE as a minimum.

[Dilitante1]

IIRC, you could use the software that comes with the new drive to bypass the limitations in the BIOS

if not an option a Promise add-on controller should do the trick

[Helevitia]

Originally posted by Wombat
3 connectors? That would be unusual. 2 or 4 (and thus 4 or 8 drives, though things like CD-ROMs from back then are a tad tempermental/greedy).

According to the specs in the above link, it reads:

3 Connection Hercules IDE Interface Cable [Part #8002545]

Admittedly, I haven't opened the case yet.

[Wombat]

That would be the <B>cable</B>. 3 connections means the end that goes to the motherboard + 2 connections for drives. Standard IDE cable.

[Helevitia]

ahh yeah, duh! Thanks

[Technoid]

Originally posted by Wombat
If you install a USB/firewire card in the system, you'll run into the problem that W98 original doesn't support USB or firewire.

He doesn't have USB2.0. In which case, HD access via USB is very slow.

What do you mean by burning? You said it's a HD. In other words, Question 2 doesn't make sense.

Windows 95 does not suport USB.
Edit: Win95B did have suport for the USB port but since MS changed specs with W98, no device drivers will load

Windows 98 does suport USB.

[Jammrock]

Win98 supports USB 1.1, but you still need a patch. Only SE supports it 'natively'. Windows Update should get the patch installed for regular 98.

Jammrock