Opera for free!

[az]

Of course Opera would have a larger user base if it were given away for free - but how is the company supposed to make money and pay the developers then? So, Opera would cease to exist or live on as an Open Source project, and let's face it, the big OS projects only survive because they have corporate backing/guidance.

AZ

[GuchiGuh]

[xortam]

Such is life.

[Jessterw]

Firefox development has been, post-Pheonix, funded by the likes of AOL and others who have interest in seeing a quality open-source alternative to IE available.

[GuchiGuh]

downloading opera now. want to see whats it like after some time of no use

[az]

Oh, forgot to say, it's the current issue, available for non-subscribers from today (monday) at least in germany. Issue 8/2005.

AZ

[Nowhere]

...
but because Opera is...much faster...hugely better usability
...AZ

(all this applies with many tabs open) Then why it takes for Opera few seconds to react to a click on a tab, if it reacts at all? (in most cases it does, but...) Why scrollbar deataches from the mouse when I drag it? Why something similiar happens when using scrollwheel? Why all transfer from/to webpages stops at some point? (under win2k - OS with no limit of connections number)

[az]

I have no idea. What Opera version are you using?

I don't have ANY of these problems, honestly. I regularly surf with many tabs open (although I must say with 100 tabs open it sometimes takes half a second to react when clicking on a tab, and with 100+ connections at the same time, it gets a little sluggish as well). There are some sites that slow Opera way down (I think it's some plugin issue), but I have no URIs at hand, because those are not sites I frequent. Oh, yes, www.the-underdogs.org slows Opera down when many pages of it are opened in separate tabs; I haven't bothered to look into the reason.

Turn off "smooth scrolling" or whatever it's called, with this off my Opera reacts faster and more directly to the scrollwheel than any other app I've tried. Transfers don't stop here (only when the damn router crashes). I don't know what you mean by the crollbar detaching from the mouse - you scroll and suddenly it is as if you had lifted the finger off the button for a split second? I never had that problem in any app.

The best address to get these problems solved is to post them at http://my.opera.com/forums/ (probably in "General" or "Opera for Windows", but I think there's also a polish forum, and some very knowledgeable polish people there). The forums are a very nice place if you don't storm in shouting how Opera is a POS or FF is hugely superior or something, and many of the people there know a lot more about Opera than I do.

AZ

[xortam]

So tell me az ... what are the Opera folks (don't know the company name) doing to modify their business model so it can grow their business? They'll need to enlarge their user base which will be tough if they're the only ones charging for a browser. You mention that they will be going after the mobile market but surely they'll have tough competition there as well and from better financed organizations. How viable is Opera's future?

[az]

The name's Opera Software ASA, they're listed in the Oslo stock exchange under the symbol "OPERA".

Well, to get a larger user base for the desktop, the most important thing is to release new, better versions that provide a benefit to the user, and, maybe more importantly, communicating this advantage (i. e. marketing/advertising). They wanted to have Opera 8 ready for the FF 1.0 release, which obviously didn't work out, so they expanded on what Opera 8 was going to be and will be releasing early this quarter. It is very hard to sell a browser when everybody else is giving theirs away for free, but they have managed to do so for the last ten years, I don't see why they should fail now. They've always been in third place (although very influential: almost all the good features you can find in Moz/FF and future IE versions have been pioneered by them).

They are already going strong in the mobile market and are quite aggressively developing and making contracts. This market works completely different than the desktop market: Important is what handset manufacturers or providers bundle with their phones (Vodafone is an important customer for Opera, because they set an example for the other carriers). Opera has quite a strong technology base for this market: The browser is already available for almost all important proprietary mobile OSes (except PalmOS), can easily be ported to other OSes (They are waiting for big customers to ask for a port to, for instance, PalmOS), and is very feature-rich for a mobile browser (the rendering engine is the same as for the desktop, AFAIK). There are a few competitors, and handset manufacturers often choose to develop a barebones browser in-house and ship their phones with that, so marketing is very important here, too. Still, this (and maybe embedded stuff) is where the volume is and where Opera has found a niche and an opportunity. We'll see what becomes of it.

AZ

[xortam]

... Well, to get a larger user base for the desktop, the most important thing is to release new, better versions that provide a benefit to the user, and, maybe more importantly, communicating this advantage (i. e. marketing/advertising). ... It is very hard to sell a browser when everybody else is giving theirs away for free, but they have managed to do so for the last ten years, I don't see why they should fail now. ...

How has Opera Software ASA financed their business so far? Did they have large seed money that sustained them through unprofitable years? Do they have cash reserves and/or adequate credit? Are they now profitable and if so, for how long? Do they have the finances to grow the business which might include greatly expanding their marketing budget. I'm not interested enough to look this stuff up myself but you seem to be dedicated to this company so perhaps you already know the answers.

... They've always been in third place (although very influential: almost all the good features you can find in Moz/FF and future IE versions have been pioneered by them). ...

Xerox was a pioneer too but they didn't have very good business sense when it came to desktop computing. My question concerns the viability of their business and how long one can expect support for the Opera browser.

... They are already going strong in the mobile market and are quite aggressively developing and making contracts. ... this (and maybe embedded stuff) is where the volume is and where Opera has found a niche and an opportunity. We'll see what becomes of it. ...

This may be their salvation according to what you've said. Microsoft has pissed off enough people in the industry that they will have a more difficult time competing in the newer markets. Microsoft has got massive resources to conquer new markets and they need to find new ways to try and grow their business (which is pretty tough to do at their current size).

[Jessterw]

The important thing to remember is that Opera has already had a strong presence in the embedded and mobile market; it's not a new market for them.

Like az has pointed out, they've been around for 10 years or so now and they've done reasonably well business-wise. There are plenty of people who are willing to pay for premium product, and once Opera firmly establishes that they produce such a product, then I see no reason why they can't continue for the foreseeable future. They don't have to be a juggernaut to succeed.

[az]

I don't know how much they started with, but they were originally a small division of Norway's then state-owned telco, so I guess they had more than nothing in the beginning. Until 2002, there was NO free version of their browser, you HAD to pay to use it. I think they've made small losses all these years, but I think in 2004 they had a plus. Also, I think this was also in 2004, they settled a lawsuit with an undisclosed party (widely assumed to be Microsoft), which earned them, I think, 12 million dollars. They've been hiring a lot lately and have never been as active as now. They recently announced a Windows Phone Edition (or whatever that's called) version of their browser, which would be very nice for a lot of smartphones.

BTW, I don't think MS will be taking over the regular phone market in the near future: Windows is just too resource-hungry, and I bet a proprietary OS is cheaper anyway in the long run. For smartphones, though, Windows is a great OS, not least because of its viewers for MS Office files and Outlook synch.

BTW, please don't take what I've said as hard facts or a sound analysis. I'm writing from memory here, and I am no insider (and certainly no expert).

What Opera needs to do is make their name synonymous with something like "the full web on your phone" or something - making their name a quality feature for a smartphone or PDA, like outlook synch. Then carriers (and maybe phone manufacturers) will much more likely buy Opera mass-licenses to include the browser with their phones.

AZ

[xortam]

... They don't have to be a juggernaut to succeed.

True ... but as Norm from "Cheers" once said ... "It's a dog-eat-dog world out there and I'm wearing milkbone boxers."

[xortam]

... they were originally a small division of Norway's then state-owned telco, ...

That explains a lot about how they've managed to survive so far.

... I think this was also in 2004, they settled a lawsuit with an undisclosed party (widely assumed to be Microsoft), which earned them, I think, 12 million dollars. ...

That's Microsoft's normal approach to stealing technology.

... They've been hiring a lot lately and have never been as active as now. ...

That's always a good sign.

... please don't take what I've said as hard facts or a sound analysis. I'm writing from memory here, and I am no insider (and certainly no expert). ...

Don't worry. I'd due my own due diligence if I was looking to invest in the company. Thanks for the dialog.