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**GT98** · 2 August 2005, 08:42

I know some areas of Comcast you can still get all the channels minus pay per view and premium channels like HBO and the like without a cable box. I'd assume that you get it though other cable companies also since the main reason you have an addressible CATV box is for PPV and to make their life easier because they can just remote program it without sending a cable guy out there to do it

Media PC's can also be a MP3 Jukebox for your home theater setup.

i had an HTPC and I sold it since I never used it.

**Nowhere** · 2 August 2005, 08:54

Uhmm...but there are digital tuner PCI cards...

**Kurt** · 2 August 2005, 09:04

Originally posted by Gurm

Ok, just like the title says...

The Media Center PC has a tuner in it. You schedule shows to be recorded. Sounds good, right? Well, yeah except...

Almost everyone has digital cable nowadays. CERTAINLY anyone that would shell out many hundreds of dollars for a Media Center PC also has digital cable.

The kicker? Digital cable requires a separate tuner. This separate tuner makes the Media Center PC ... useless. It can't pick which channel to record from, since the separate tuner passes through a single video signal!

So what am I missing? Is this just a completely worthless segment? Consumer buying habits would seem to bear the idea out - digital cable became too prevalent, and thus we don't see much about Media Center PC's any more. It's certainly not the front-page item it was, say... two and a half years ago.

But am I missing something fundamental?

It's a WIP segment. I haven't found a satisfying solution just yet...HTPC is a nice idea, I just don't know how to have cable + DVB-T + DVB-S working fine together, plus DVD playback. I'll only miss VCR, but they'll be GONE in 3 years time, FOREVER (I just bought a Sony + 4 year extended warranty for not even half the price I'd have bought it without the warranty 3 years ago, and it's CHEAP anyway).

**Gurm** · 2 August 2005, 09:32

Originally posted by Nowhere

Uhmm...but there are digital tuner PCI cards...

Yes, I've seen those. Those are even MORE useless, since if I plug my Comcast line into that digital tuner card... nothing will happen. You need the locked Comcast box with its access card (internal, nontransferrable) in order to decode the digital signal, which is encrypted.

**Kurt** · 2 August 2005, 09:54

Not here, DVB-T is FTA, mostly. You will need another receiver for the encrypted ones though, but as they make DVB-S CI PCI cards, I'm sure they'll make DVB-T CI cards too or they will add a card reader to them.

**Nowhere** · 2 August 2005, 09:56

Too bad for Comcast subscribers...and only to them.
There are also access cards readers for PC tuners you know...

**uberlad** · 2 August 2005, 10:22

I will admit that my HTPC has been bought because the free to air DVB-T in the UK gives me most of the channels I want. The rest of the channels on cable either show US shows that BitTorrent records for me, repeats of everythign decent that the BBC has done for the last 40 years, or the F$%^ing Crazy Frog 24 / 7.

In a single box I then get TV, TV recording, DVD playing, AVI playing, network enabled jukebox, picture viewer and browsing on the TV during the adverts. Until digital cable and satellite that require decryption cards can be decoded with a PCI card then I can see that HTPCs will be pretty niche.

Uberlad

**rylan** · 2 August 2005, 11:21

Hmm I dunno... comcast doesn't encrypt their digital cable here. There are several people I know that have Plasma TVs with a built in digital tuner and it works great.

**agallag** · 2 August 2005, 12:05

The MS Media Center Remote receiver box includes ports for two IR Blasters. You can therefore control two separate cable boxes. You plug the RF output from the cable box into the RF input on your PC tuner. The setup is all handled by the wizard. You just tell it your postal/zip code, and it provides a list of cable or satellite providers in your area. Pick the one(s) you use, and it does the rest. It's really quite slick.

Of course, this means that your recording is always analog, because there's no way to get digital out of most cable boxes.

You just have to make sure you leave your cable box turned on, because the PC can't tell if it's getting signal or not.

**Gurm** · 2 August 2005, 12:12

Originally posted by rylan

Hmm I dunno... comcast doesn't encrypt their digital cable here. There are several people I know that have Plasma TVs with a built in digital tuner and it works great.

Well it's not ALL encrypted. My point is simply that it MIGHT be. There's no guarantee that those digital cards will read ANYTHING. And people buying these itty bitty HTPC's without digital tuners in them are SOL no matter HOW you look at it, right?

**rylan** · 2 August 2005, 16:15

Yup, thats true. And actually, Comcast was encrypting their digital cable last year. Dunno why they stopped doing it now, unless its by accident or they're trying out the new version of those cable card things.

**Jammrock** · 2 August 2005, 18:57

Originally posted by Nowhere

Uhmm...but there are digital tuner PCI cards...

US cable companies use proprietary security schemes and do not allow people to make decoder boxes for PC's or HTPCs. TO get around in the US you have to get an IR blaster, either serial or USB, that changes the channels on the cable box for you. You then input the signal to the HTPC via S-Video, composite, component, etc. The down side is you have to have a cable box per channel you want to record/watch. So if you wanted the ability to record 1 channel and watch 1 channel you would...

with a single box need to watch on show on analog cable (usually around the first 80 channels) and then record one show off digital, or vice versa. Assuming your card has dual inputs, or you have two tunners.

With two boxes and appropriate tunners you can of course record as much as you want, assuming the IR blasters do not limit you, which they shouldn't.

This is what happens when paranoid piracy fearing exec that must protect every penny at all costs is in charge of making technology decisions.

Jammrock

**Gurm** · 3 August 2005, 05:48

Right. I understand all of that. I'm just wondering if what happened was that there was a window that people spotted where these things would work well... and then that window closed? That's sort of how I see it. The window closed, and these things were released to little fanfare and even less customer acceptance.

HP had an AMAZING HTPC last year. It had dual-tuner, it was shaped like a stereo component, even had an integrated tuner and amp. Of course, it is just as useless as every other HTPC out there... and was quickly discontinued.

**Kurt** · 3 August 2005, 06:11

HTPC is a niche product. I don't think HP et al know what they're doing just yet.

IMO there's need for an HTPC to do the following:
1/ play audio/video stuff (no, really?) in all possible formats (dvd, mpeg4, mp3, ogg, itunes, whatnot)
2/ support cable, dvb-s/t, radio and multi-tuner devices
3/ integrate all that into ONE EPG
4/ record all that and be able to stream it/burn it on backup medium
5/ VERY important: have the right connectors (rca, scart, spdif, hdmi et al)
6/ have a slim form factor, be silent, and not produce much heat
7/ [mind is blank but I'm sure there's more coming after 6/]

3/ and 5/ are tricky, and 2/ doesn't seem up to snuff.

I just got MCE and a remote, Twin TV tuner from XFX. Haven't decided what mainboard+cpu to get yet. Either Asus + Pentium M + S479 adapter or Aopen + Pentium M. The Aopen being 200 EUR w/o VAT, I'm tempted but not so much for an experiment. I might as well find an EPIA board (I'm a bit worried about the CPU power though).

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Can someone explain Media Center PC's?

Can someone explain Media Center PC's?

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