NY Times: WiFi hack in 60 seconds or less

[Dr Mordrid]

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2006/08/hijacking_a_macbook_in_60_seco_1.html

Hijacking a Macbook in 60 Seconds or Less

Black Hat

If you want to grab the attention of a roomful of hackers, one sure fire way to do it is to show them a new method for remotely circumventing the security of an Apple Macbook computer to seize total control over the machine. That's exactly what hackers Jon "Johnny Cache" Ellch and David Maynor plan to show today in their Black Hat presentation on hacking the low-level computer code that powers many internal and external wireless cards on the market today.

The video shows Ellch and Maynor targeting a specific security flaw in the Macbook's wireless "device driver," the software that allows the internal wireless card to communicate with the underlying OS X operating system. While those device driver flaws are particular to the Macbook -- and presently not publicly disclosed -- Maynor said the two have found at least two similar flaws in device drivers for wireless cards either designed for or embedded in machines running the Windows OS. Still, the presenters said they ultimately decided to run the demo against a Mac due to what Maynor called the "Mac user base aura of smugness on security."

[Jessterw]

The problem isn't with Macs or OS X, it is with the specific device drivers for the particular chipset. The same or like flaws exists in the Windows and Linux versions as well.

As they said, they chose to target the Mac because they think Mac users are smug about security. Something that couldn't be farther from the truth. Most longtime Mac users are extremely concerned about security and that's one of the reasons they've chosen to use that particular platform. It's not smugness, it's being knowledgeable about the platform you use.

But that's venturing off-topic. The fact that this is being hyped as a Mac issue and not what it truly is, a device drive issue that is present across platforms, is bad journalism.

[MultimediaMan]

Device drivers have to be written for a given platform: this usually involves a completely different code base. That said, quite a few people have been looking at the basic security of Device Drivers/Modules/Libraries for some time, particularly on the networking-side of things.

But you're right: this really isn't anything new.

[Gurm]

The same or like flaws exists in the Windows and Linux versions as well.

True.

As they said, they chose to target the Mac because they think Mac users are smug about security.

Also true.

Most longtime Mac users are extremely concerned about security and that's one of the reasons they've chosen to use that particular platform.

False. SOME Mac users are concerned about security and chose the Mac because of it, but MOST Mac users are either smug self-superior bastards or the tragically uninformed. Just because there's a growing contingent of geeks using OS X doesn't change the fact that Apple markets specifically to the easily duped and/or those with a holier-than-thou complex.

THIS is a typical Mac user:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/07/12

It's not smugness, it's being knowledgeable about the platform you use.

Really? I mean, I'm pretty sure nobody is actually "knowledgeable" about the Mac, present company perhaps excluded. The Mac is "magic". It either works or it doesn't. Blue screens? We can tell you what you did wrong there. Mac bombs? NO CLUE. What does "error 10" mean? All I know is it made the machine lock up. Even OSX, which OUGHT to be easy to explore because it's based on BSD... isn't. It's all arcane and locked down and impossible to fiddle with. That's the real problem with the Mac. When it "just works", it's brilliant. When it doesn't... you can't MAKE it work, because you can't fiddle with anything. The fix is to just reinstall... which drives me insane.

But that's venturing off-topic. The fact that this is being hyped as a Mac issue and not what it truly is, a device drive issue that is present across platforms, is bad journalism.

Again, this I'll get on board with.

[Jessterw]

Sigh. You've obviously bought into the popular opinion that all Mac users are something they are not. Just like with any group, the loud ones are not necessarily indicative of the group as a whole. Now I'll give you that a lot of Mac users can come off as smug because of how entirely dedicated they are to the platform. Just as *nix users can come off with a superiority complex and Windows users can come off as people who really don't care about computing. It's all a bunch of bullshit stereotypes.

Save for all the newly 'converted' who are mainly buying them because they're the newest hip thing, most longtime Mac users are in it because they care about their computing environment and do care about security. They may come off as smug about how secure a Macs or Mac OS (pick a version) is specifically because they are informed. The statistics tend to back them up.

As for troubleshooting a Mac. You're right, the beachball (or pinwheel if you prefer) and/or bomb scenarios are less than helpful on an information level, but those of us who choose to use a Mac have learned how and where to obtain the information. Again, that just comes with being knowledgeable about the platform you choose to use.

Apple may target a certain demographic, but the core of Mac users has always been creative professionals and developers. In case you haven't noticed, the guys at Penny Arcade are now Mac users as well.

Don't confuse passionate and informed with smugness.

[Sasq]

Applications/Utilities/Consol (log) <- all the information is there.
terminal: su <- ability to fix is there.
*granted you need to enable the root login first.

'nuff said

[Jessterw]

That's the real problem with the Mac. When it "just works", it's brilliant. When it doesn't... you can't MAKE it work, because you can't fiddle with anything. The fix is to just reinstall... which drives me insane.

Are we talking about Mac OS or Windows here?

No OS is perfect and no OS is qualifiedly better than any other. It's as simple as choosing the one that fits the job or your personal preference. Mine was choosing a platform that was both aesthetically pleasing and functional without having to worry about an incessant amount of virus and other issues that plague Windows. I count myself lucky as I never had near as many problems with Windows as everyone else I know has had, but it only took so many times before it became too many. Mac OS isn't perfect and I've had issues, but generally speaking I've yet to have a crash that brings the whole system down. Oh and reinstalls are rather painless with OS X as it is more than happy to remember as many settings as it can and migrate them even if you're installing over with a previous version (within reason obviously).

[Gurm]

Are we talking about Mac OS or Windows here?

No OS is perfect and no OS is qualifiedly better than any other. It's as simple as choosing the one that fits the job or your personal preference. Mine was choosing a platform that was both aesthetically pleasing and functional without having to worry about an incessant amount of virus and other issues that plague Windows. I count myself lucky as I never had near as many problems with Windows as everyone else I know has had, but it only took so many times before it became too many. Mac OS isn't perfect and I've had issues, but generally speaking I've yet to have a crash that brings the whole system down. Oh and reinstalls are rather painless with OS X as it is more than happy to remember as many settings as it can and migrate them even if you're installing over with a previous version (within reason obviously).

Ok, let's cover the worst-case scenario... how do you undelete files on a Mac? *cough* Y'know, after you format the hard disk?

[Jessterw]

Ignoring that deleting files and formatting a hard disk are two different things, you would do it the same way you do it with any formatted hard disk. You know, because they're the same ones used in PCs.

Edit: To just clarify. Yes the formatting used on disk used by Mac OS is different than by Windows or by Linux or by YADUD. The process, however, is the same. I am assuming what you meant to say is "how do you retrieve files after you've formatted the disk they were on?".

[Sasq]

pretty much the same way you do with windows...
third party software.

http://www.nucleustechnologies.com/Macintosh-Data-Recovery-Software.html

[Gurm]

Cool! So there's third-party software for the Mac that does what has been built into DOS since ... oh ... version 4?

I'm just giving y'all a hard time. We all know what the shortcomings of the system are, just like we all know that nobody really gets blue screens on Windows any more. There are two primary reasons I don't use a Mac. One is that I have no money, so what little money I don't have goes into parts for the PC. And the second is... that I really can't get anything done on it. Maybe I'm not in the right frame of mind, maybe I just don't have enough pirated software connections for the Mac. But the reality is that I can do my work on a PC. *shrug*

But back to the ORIGINAL topic... Mac users DO think they're invulnerable. Just like Linux users. Just like anyone who doesn't use whatever the mainstream is. But what's the fastest growing area of hacking? People who think they're invulnerable. There are more hacks on astalavista.com for Eudora than there are for Outlook, because Microsoft is patching every hole in Outlook as fast as anyone can find them, but most people don't update their Eudora EVER because it's "more secure".

Linux viruses are on the increase, too. But most Linux users are convinced that they'll never get one.

OSX is less virus-laden, to be sure. But it wasn't that long ago (any OS prior to OSX) that you could find THOUSANDS of virii on a single Mac. Yes, THOUSANDS. I remember going to one girl's dorm room because her Mac was crashing a lot. I was skeptical, because well... ALL Macs crash a lot. I'm not being sarcastic here, in the Quadro days it was just presumed that your Mac would crash a lot. Much like Win95. Anyway, I did the obligatory virus scan, and there were OVER A THOUSAND virii on her machine. How do you get that infected? I just do NOT know.

I'll take my chances with Windows. I've had TWO infections in the past ten years, one was Blaster the day it came out, I had been unlucky enough to directly connect one of my machines that day to the cable modem. Ouch! And the other was a piece of spyware that, while insidious, was easily enough removed with Spy Sweeper.

With thousands upon thousands of "in the wild" virii for the PC, I'll take those odds.

[Sasq]

oh so you were meaning undelete, as opposed to recover from a format....
Don't have a name handy, as I generally don't need to. but as a guess I would say its the same software as runs on *nix.

and in reply to pirated software, or you just don't know how to use non Microsoft stuff hmm....

[Jessterw]

Sigh. You're still confusing being informed with something else. The majority, yes the majority, of Mac users do not think their systems are invulnerable. This goes for Linux/Unix as well. The underpinnings of these OSs have already been hardened against virus infections and trojan-style attacks after years of being subjected to them. They've also, in their modern incarnations, had the benefit of seeing where Windows went completely wrong with security.

Any system, however, is susceptible to being compromised. It's just a matter of probability. Mac users are secure in this regard because there is currently an extremely low probability of system running OS X being compromised. Yes, you're correct in stating that some versions of Mac OS before OS X were just as bad about security as Windows in some regards. But the fact is that there have always been fewer threats to a Mac's security than Windows'.

So you have a story about a virus-laden Mac? What does that prove? That Macs can and have been compromised? That's not anything new, and I'd bet most long-time Mac users are well aware of it. I've seen PCs running Windows bogged down with viruses/virii. As someone would say, "look at the wookie".

I used Windows for years and never had many problems with my personal installs. I don't hate Windows or think it's a terrible OS. It's just not the OS I choose to use any longer. You say you can't get anything done on a Mac. Not sure what it is you're trying to do, but if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. It's as simple as that.

Pirated software? Don't use it. I own every piece of software on my Mac, save for JBuilder which is tied to my employer. A large majority of it is freeware - quality freeware. Most of the rest were $10-$30 purchases that largely don't require me to ever purchase them again.

Not that most of this has anything to do with the topic or this fork concerning the general security of the Mac OS.


Edit:
Have to call you on the whole "how do you undelete after a format" question and your subsequent retort about DOS' undelete command. We're comparing Windows and Mac OS here. The undelete command can be problematic if used with an associated Windows 9x/NT install. Of course it was rendered unneeded with the introduction of the various 'trash bins'.

Which is wholly different thing than recovering files after a disc format.

[Gurm]

Edit:
Have to call you on the whole "how do you undelete after a format" question and your subsequent retort about DOS' undelete command. We're comparing Windows and Mac OS here. The undelete command can be problematic if used with an associated Windows 9x/NT install. Of course it was rendered unneeded with the introduction of the various 'trash bins'.

Which is wholly different thing than recovering files after a disc format.

If you format and regret it, there's always "unformat".

And yes, I'm aware that these commands are of limited usefulness under NTFS, and I'm also aware that OSX has some nice third-party tools that do the same things that EZ Recovery or Undelete do for Windows. But those are fairly recent developments, now aren't they?

I've had to support some Macs recently, and they are pretty, yes. I think I'd go insane trying to keep my machine organized with so little control over things, but they sure are pretty. And ... pretty. Kinda slow, but pretty. Actually the big honkin' ones aren't slow at all, but the cute little pretty ones kinda are. And I hate Entourage. With a capital "H". But it's what you have to use if you want to interface with an Exchange server. Damn Microsoft and their aborted Mac versions of stuff.

But lots of things just don't run snappy. Illustrator on the big ol' design Macs I've been supporting, which are pricey machines... it just runs like a hog. Compare that to an off-the-shelf $300 Dell, and the Dell runs Illustrator faster. And that's what the Mac is supposed to be GOOD at. I'm sure there's some workflow thing that makes up for the sluggishness of the system, but honestly it just runs ... SLOW. I had to make some changes to the print queues, so I had this one guy save off his document. It took like 90 solid seconds to get the document saved and exit Illustrator, and this didn't surprise him at all. If ANY graphics file I was working with on my PC took that long to open/close/save/edit, I'd blow something up. Maybe this machine is/was poorly configured, I don't know.

But in my experience, it's ALWAYS been like this. Mac people say how nicely it runs, then I sit a PC and a Mac side by side and double click the "photoshop" icon and see which one opens first, and it's always the PC, even if the Mac is newer/faster/better. I don't know what that means, really. I see benchmarks that show that the Mac crunches video or graphics faster, but when performing an identical operation it... just... doesn't. Or didn't last time I checked which admittedly was about 2 years ago, XP versus OSX 10.whatever. That time I ran Quark side by side, and the PC version (which is a half-assed port, anyone who works with it can tell you) just ran rings around this graphic-design powerhouse Mac G4.

So I really don't know what to think. I hear people say it's really good. And then I use it and it's really pretty but really slow...

[Jessterw]

I always hear Mac-haters make comparisons like that, and yet I've never once seen it (not to that extreme degree). I code Java apps with JBuilder, create vector images with Illustrator, and do other image-related tasks in Photoshop on my iBook. That's not one of those "big ol' design" Macs (whatever the hell that is) by the way. Runs much faster than the $600 HP I have.

Adobe's apps have gone down hill in terms of their performance on Mac OS, but that's because Adobe specifically shifted focus to the Windows platform years ago

And yes, early versions of OS X were horrid in many ways. It was a new platform and had more than its fair share of issues. Any long-time Mac user will tell you that, and most of them were rather vocal about it. They usually are when there is a real problem.

The data recovery apps for Mac OS are not new, there's just more of them than there were before.

As far as Entourage goes, what the hell does that have to do with Mac OS? It's a half-ass MS application. If you need to operate in a primarily Windows-based network that uses Exchange, then there's that whole right tool for the job thing. There's that wookie again.

What can I say though. I had generally good experiences on Windows and I'm having far better ones on OS X. The latter fits the way I work and the work I need to do better. Windows appears to do it for you. It's as simple as that.

This is an old argument with the same results. Mac users will always defend their chosen platform and Windows users will always say how horribly it performs in all their side-by-side comparisons. I just keep coming back to the fact that if Macs were as horrid as some people seem to think, Mac users wouldn't (as a majority) still be using them. At least that's the case with every long-time Mac user I know.

*Not calling you a Mac-hater by the way, just that you sound like one :P