Announcement

**Jammrock** · 27 July 1999, 00:07

Juffo-wup

[This message has been edited by Jammrock (edited 07-27-99).]

**Jammrock** · 27 July 1999, 00:21

There is only one SS7 motherboard I have ever heard of that has relatively no problems...and you guessed it, it's the ASUS line. As the saying goes, your get what you pay for. Try out an ASUS and see how it works. It may bring up your system price a bit, but it more than make up for itself in asprin costs.

As for SS7 unreliabilities and so forth, there are 2 reasons (IMHO). First, AMD did not do much more than give a weak reference design for chip makers and motherboard makers to go by. So the different SS7 boards have their own little querks in them (AGP rings the biggest bell here, remember the forums when the G200 first came out, almost every SS7 user couldn't get AGP 2x to work). Secondly, SS7 boards are designed to go into the cheapest computers on the market. There are a few board makers that make good SS7 boards, but you pay more for their stuff. You save on headaches by using them, but they drive up costs so people don't like using them.

This is why I have stayed away from SS7 systems. I really like AMD, they make great chips, but if you don't have a good motherboard to put the chip on, then your computer will suck anyway. I used a K6 233 for 1.5 years on and old Intel TX motherboard and NEVER had a problem with it, no matter what I put into it. Luckily, for AMD and their supporters, AMD is working a lot harder with Ali and Via to make the Athlon motherboards top of the line and compatible with everything. That and they are using exsisting technology, the EV6 from Digital (a great motherboard system from what I hear), and have made a stable, well made and compatible referance design already for everyone to go by. So I look forward to the Athlons, but SS7's I generally stay away from.

Jammrock

------------------
PIII 540 (120 MHz x 4.5 - 540), 256 MB PC133 SDRAM, ASUS P3B-F, Winblows 98 SuckyEdition, 18 GB WD Expert HDD, Encore 6x DVD w/ Dxr3 decoder, (TEMPORARY!!!) Voodoo 3 2000 @ 175 MHz which will be replaced by a Matrox G400 MAX, Sound Blaster Live! full retail, MAG DX715T 17

**Wombat** · 27 July 1999, 03:08

First problem: manufacturers. Try the better ones. I've never used an ASUS SS7, but I'm quite happy with my FIC board, and Joel and others seem to like their Epox boards a lot.

Another major factor I see is that SS7 companies are fighting with Wintel, who don't completely play fair. MS puts extra effort into making sure that Windows plays nice w/ Intel hardware. Also, Intel defines the standards in the PC HW world, and doesn't always tell others what they are.
Case in point: AGP
Intel's own personal design, when everyone else just wanted full-FSB PCI slots. But everyone knew how to make PCI slots, so intel went with something different - and proprietary. Intel didn't want anyone else to be able to manufacture AGP technology, and when they lost that battle, they didn't really come clean. VIA followed the AGP specs, but when Intel released the i740, it would only work on Intel boards. Such little "undocumented" bits make it that much harder for VIA, Ali, and others to compete.

-Wombat

P.S. Never buy PC-Chips.

------------------
503+ rev 1.2a, 128MB PC100 RAM, K6-2/350@400,RH6 & Win98,G200 Millenium (SGRAM), no plans to buy a G400

**Steve C** · 27 July 1999, 03:26

OK, thanks for the replies, guys, but what then are the best SS7 boards to use?

FIC sound OK, as do EPOX and ASUS. Any others? I will want AT versions too - not just ATX (this is for the upgrade market).

Cheers,

Steve

------------------
Yeah, you know the score...
(ICQ: 29468849)

**Helevitia** · 27 July 1999, 05:13

Steve,

I've only used Asus but definitely reliable and fast! They continually release new BIOS, AGP drivers, and Bus Mastering drivers. They always have beta versions out and the manuals are somewhat well written(they are gold compared to all other manuals I have read). They also make an AT version of the same mobo. I have heard good things about the AX59Pro, FIC, and one other that slips my mind. My brother has the AX59 Pro and he never complains about anything.

Dave

**Wombat** · 27 July 1999, 11:36

Steve,
I have a spare FIC board in my closet. It's a VA-503+, v 1.1a Not the most recent revision, but still solid. There's nothing wrong with it, but I couldn't get the company I ordered it from to take it back. (The first board I received was defective, I RMA'd it, and they sent me - and charged for - two. ) By now I've given up on trying to sell it, but if you want to pay shipping, e-mail me.
Oh, it's AT (Baby, maybe 3/4).

-Wombat (the good Samaritan?)

**Wombat** · 27 July 1999, 11:43

Oh, somebody mentioned the AX59Pro. I built a friend a system on one of those. It wasn't the cheapest, but it's pretty good. Not exactly the OC'ers' dream that some boards are, but I haven't had any problems w/ it. It even has all the little toys, like the CPU thermistor standard.
Last I heard, the Pro supported a few lower voltages as well. Stuff below 2.0v, which showed promise of supporting the (possibly mythical now) latest K6-3's. I don't know how it does above 100Mhz FSB, though.

-Wombat

**motub** · 27 July 1999, 12:07

As seen below, I use a Soyo 5EMA (*not* +, which is the current mobo). It's OK, relatively stable, good driver support, good documentation. On the other hand, I couldn't even get my K6-2 333 (rated 95 X 3.5) to run at 350 (100 X 3.5), so what's up with that?

I'd get the Epox EP-MVP3G-M which IMO is the only stable SS7 mobo barring the AX59 Pro (which is short a PCI slot), but I've about had it with SS7. Just not ready for prime time, playing the catchup game has not worked, and I'm not throwing good money after 'not as good as I hoped'.

Steve, here's my question: why are you even f**king with SS7 at all? I just got a DFI BX mobo for $65 on closeout and I'll be building a Celery box for my backup system...I just want to see for myself what it's like to have parts work out of the box...Anyway, if you're not o/c-ing, you can build a Celery system for the same price with less hassles (so I hear), so why not? Buying an Athlon will be more effective in standing against the Intel hegemony, anyway....

Those of us who've already spent our money on SS7 are SOL, but *you* have a choice, you lucky stiff...

------------------
Holly
Who put her V2 in her roomie's PC, because her own Soyo 5EMA, K6-2 333 not o/c, 256MB PC100 , Millennium G200 8MB SGRAM, Win98 finally works plenty good enough...'til she's saved the $$ for the G400/Athlon rig, anyway... [drool, pant, drool... ]

[This message has been edited by motub (edited 07-27-99).]

**Wombat** · 27 July 1999, 15:02

That 333 is a 333 b/c AMD messed up and produced a whole bunch of CPU's with an off timing. Those are just mis-manufactured 350's.

You're right, though. I wouldn't build a SS7 system now. I've considered going with a Slot-type setup, but I just never wanted to shell out the money for an ATX case, to start with. Now I'm just going to wait until PC133 becomes cheaper, and the K7's get down to my price range.

-Wombat

------------------
503+ rev 1.2a, 128MB PC100 RAM, K6-2/350@400,RH6 & Win98,G200 Millenium (SGRAM), no plans to buy a G400

**Jon McGarry** · 27 July 1999, 15:34

i740 doesn't work with SS7? That's somewhat strange. I have an i740 board running in a K6-2 350 at work without any difficulties at all.

**M Ragsdale** · 27 July 1999, 16:24

Jon, The i740 initially did not work well at all with the ss7 platform. Bios upgrades/AGP Gart Upgrades/Video driver upgrades cured *most* of the problems.

To Steve's Question, I believe the reason is pretty simple. There is little competition between chipset mfgs. in the SS7 market. If Intel were to be in the game, I am pretty sure that the threat of sales towards the "other better, more compatible" chipset would make them take notice of the problems with their design. But this is not the case. VIA is not a dumb company, they are selling *alot* of chipsets right now and in the past year and a half, and this is with the current state of their quality. Why would they go and re-design their platform, when sales are so high? They already know this is pretty much "Achille's last stand", so they aren't going to invest much more than minor improvements. They are concerned with the upcoming events: PC133, AGP4X, Athlon, Camino compatibility, etc.

Matt

------------------
486 sx25, 4MB, Hercules Dynamite Pro VLB, SB16, PIO mode 2 145MB Hard drive, Win 3.1
R.I.P.

[This message has been edited by M Ragsdale (edited 07-28-99).]

**rhokanson** · 27 July 1999, 16:45

I don't know, I'm quite happy with my
Fic board.You can run it in a AT or ATX
case,I've used both.I use to be able to
do AGPx2 but not with the 5.13 drivers
but it's no big deal to me.I'm not
Intel or Amd pro,this was the first
system I built myself and didn't cost that
much.(before celery days)I am very interested
in the K7 though + the MAX.I do agree with
Wombat,stay away from PC-CHIPS

------------------
FIC 503+ 1.2a AMD k6-2 350@452
64mb pc100 Samsung gh 6ns cas2
G200 Mill.8mb.sgram.Maxtor 8.4gb Yamaha sound

**Steve C** · 27 July 1999, 21:29

Hi everyone - thanks for all your replies, but this isn't for *me*. I work in a local computer shop and we sell more K6/SS7 stuff than PII/PIII/celery stuff. This is a lot becuase of the upgrade market, but mainly due to the costs of SS7 being less than PII. The AMD K6-2's are a lot cheaper than PIIs of equivalent clock speeds.
Wombat - thanks for the offer, but we need a good supply of the goods.
Everyone - we're not bothered about overclocking for the PCs we sell.

Anyway, I think what we're gonna do is just filter out the SS7 stuff and concentrate on real PIIs as much as possible.

Thanks Everyone!

Steve

------------------
Yeah, you know the score...
(ICQ: 29468849)

[This message has been edited by Steve C (edited 07-28-99).]

**rhokanson** · 28 July 1999, 15:31

It fits nice in there,just remember to switch
the power jumper if you do go ATX.I didn't
buy a brand name model case,but I really like
the one I got cause both the sides swing open
and it's really easy to get inside and work
on things if you know what I mean.Hard drive,floppy,cd rom all slide in and out on
rails so taking every thing out is a breeze.
Power off options that I have are instant shut-off or 4 second delay.What options did you want to know about?I bought it at Aberdeen's at www.aberdeeninc.com they show
two differnt pictures and specs.Hoped that helped.

------------------
FIC 503+ 1.2a AMD k6-2 350@452
64mb pc100 Samsung gh 6ns cas2
G200 Mill.8mb.sgram.Maxtor 8.4gb Yamaha sound

Announcement

Why is SS7 so bad?

Why is SS7 so bad?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment