Saving electricity

[Fluff]

If people turned off everything but their fridge at night time would it cause problems at the power station?

Or does it depend on the type of power station? Can they ramp up and down quite easily?

Just a thought.

[VJ]

I know that nucleair powerstations cannot ramp up/down easily. I think other technologies might be able to alter the supply depending on the demand, but I doubt this is foreseen at present.

It is one of the reasons why they are urging people to use more electricity at night/weekends rather than during the day and why night time electricity is cheaper. Industries use roughly the same amount (as they work 24/7), offices also (lights are about the only thing that is turned off, pc's etc. stay on) but households use much more during the day than at night. By setting the electricity cheaper at night (and via campaigns), they try to get people to run their washing machines, dishwashers, .. at night; as to minimize this fluctuation in demand, which in turn would allow a more optimal use of the powerplants.


Jörg

[Fluff]

Do you think with IPv6 you will see devices such as washing machines / kettles / boilers / cookers actually request permission to draw power from the grid? To smooth out usage.

Then you will have limited vs unlimited power packages from power companies. Like broadband. LOL

[Nowhere]

People pretty much do just that here (plus few devices that are "off", not really off; nowadays router working 24/7) and from what I've read on MURC power grid here seems to be very reliable... (at least I have that impression from places where I lived; but that may be because this part of Poland has generally most developed industry/transport/etc.; in large part still a relict from aquisition by Prussia; when 2 or 3 years back large black-out happened in NE part (cascading, like in eastern US), it stopped basically at the border of my region and "capital city area")

But most of electricity comes from coal burning and hydroelectric... (we will have nuclear powerplant in 15 years or so...)

[VJ]

Do you think with IPv6 you will see devices such as washing machines / kettles / boilers / cookers actually request permission to draw power from the grid? To smooth out usage.

Interesting thought... So you set your machine to wash, and it will do it when it get permission to draw power from the grid... Problem is that I don't think people want this. With the current machines, you can program it to start at the time you want it to. So even though it is running at night, you are in control concerning WHEN it runs.

But for boilers and heaters, this signalling happens here more or less: when the transition is made from day-rate to the cheaper night-rate, a signal is transmitted over the powergrid. This tells the electricity meter that it should now count using the night meter rather than using the day meter (there are 2 meters). However, this signal also is interpreted by water heaters (those which have a reservoir) and heating systems (those that use accumulation), causing them to draw power when needed (which they don't during the day). In the morning, another signal is transmitted when it goes back to the more expensive day-rate causing those machines to stop drawing power.
There even was an experiment with 3 rates (my appartement was in one of the regions where it was tested): night, day and peak (peak was during the time most people cook); you then had an indicator in the kitchen saying whether the peak rate was active (so you knew using ovens, cooking plates was expensive), but this was abandonded and the 2-rate system was re-established.
(mind you, when the cabling is wrong like it was in my appartment, and the wrong meters count, one is in for an unpleasant electricity bill )


Jörg

[az]

The grid is composed of a mix of power stations to guard against power spikes like this. Gas power plants are inefficient and expensive to run, but they can react very quickly. Nuclear power plants on the other hand supply the base load that is always needed; they can't react quickly at all.

It is quite well known when power usage peaks, so this can be planned ahead. Regardless, in Europe, electricity can be purchased from other power companies to be able to provide power during short peaks in your own grid that your plants can't manage on their own. This can cost more than a Euro per kWh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant

[Fluff]

Interesting thought... So you set your machine to wash, and it will do it when it get permission to draw power from the grid... Problem is that I don't think people want this. With the current machines, you can program it to start at the time you want it to. So even though it is running at night, you are in control concerning WHEN it runs.

I was thinking 20 years down the line when we are running out of energy. How are they going to manage it. Audible alarms?

I don't think it is going to be something that people will really have a choice with.

I can see that there will be levels of service e.g.

Platinum service - Use as much as you want. No KW cap
Gold Service - 10 Kw Capping. If you have a budget. Exceed the Cap and you get maybe an audible alarm .
Bronze Service -5 Kw

Rebates for low base rate.

E.g. 5Kw

Cooker 4kw
Kettle 3Kw
Shower 5kw

So you can have a shower as long as you are not cooking. Etc.

All you need is a funky meter.

[az]

All you need is raise the prices and people will shut off their devices anyway. Introduce legislation to make standby use 10 mW or less (or let market forces sort that out - although it wouldn't work with cheap imports, but you could impose import sanctions against energy-hungry devices).

Apply the European Energy Label to other devies as well (TVs, Computers, HiFi...):



Phase out incandescent bulbs.

More wind energy will be installed, also more photovoltaic. Problem with these is they produce regardless of demand, so you have to buffer energy somehow, or have fast-reacting (thus inefficient) power plants to offset this imbalance. Connecting grids over larger distances could help even this out.