Building a LAN

[Helevitia]

arbymo,

I have heard of what you are talking about. I guess it is a standard feature with Win98 SE, but I don't own SE so I don't know. It is a nice feature definitely.

Guardian,

I always believe in you get what you pay for. I've actually seen OEM NIC cards drop packets, cause errors, etc... Based on poorly written drivers, badly spun chips, not following IEEE specs, etc...Please do yoursefl a favor and buy a name brand NIC.

Jammrock,

I agree with almost everything you said and you did an excellent job explaining everything in terms everyone can understand, but there are a few things that I will mention.

1. Loading extra protocols will slow boot up time on a computer and suck up some memory and if you are anything like me, I hate waiting and using extra resources I don't need to.

2. IPX/SPX should die a quick sudden death. It is only good for games and smallish local LAN's. It is very broadcast based. But I guess it doesn't matter for everything mentioned here.

Other than my opinion stated above, Jammrock explained it so great.

Dave

[Jammrock]

Helevitia,

Good points. I have 256 MB RAM and a PIII-500'ish, so I have never worried about the small amount of resources lost to network protocols. My computer still boots in in under 15-20 seconds (power on the desktop) so I have never really seen a slow down in boot performance. IPX is going the way of the dinosaurs, but it is still widely used for LAN games. The TCP/IP suite is just too big and complex.

Networking is such a joy. My bro picked up Q3 last night. Fun fun LAN game.

Jammrock

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PIII 450@something higher, 256 MB RAM, 35 GB on 2 WD Expert drives, Abit Hot Rod UDMA 66 controller, CL 6x DVD, G400 32 MB DH, SB Live! w/ Digital I/O, LinkSys Etherfast 10/100, DSI 56k modem, Addtronics 6896A Case w/ a crap load of fans and Dynmat noise dampening in it, MAG DX715T monitor.

Hi, my name is Jammrock. I'm a computer phreak and an EverSmack addict.

[Buuri]

Jammrock,

Loosing "network resources" (quote from my post) has nothing to do with your CPU clock.
If you know anything about networking you most certainly know that those broadcasting protocols will cause unnecessary collisions in one's LAN, thus causing network recourses to be wasted.


IceStorm,

You can address machines in the LAN by IP even if the Networking hasn't found them.
For example start Start->Run.., type the IP into the box, hit OK and you'll see all the shared resources in that PC.

_
B

[Jammrock]

Buuri,

I do know quite a bit about networking and broadcast porotcols. NetBEUI is a broadcast protocol, true, but on a 2 or 3 computer network running over a switch, there is not going to be any noticable loss of 'network resources'. And when your computer is managing 3 protocols at once, a higher CPU speed and more memory will only help.

You must also understand that the TCP/IP suite (yes, suite. There are actually around 15 different protocols in the TCP/IP suite) is the most resource intensive protocol that you can use, computing wise. TCP/IP is a broadcast protocol, too, but just not as bad as NetBEUI or IPX/SPX (it only broadcast once every 5-27 minutes or so). So for a SMALL network (less than 10 computers) NetBEUI is a better protocol to use. On anything larger than 10 computers, TCP/IP is the only way to go.

Just my $0.02.

Jammrock

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PIII 450@something higher, 256 MB RAM, 35 GB on 2 WD Expert drives, Abit Hot Rod UDMA 66 controller, CL 6x DVD, G400 32 MB DH, SB Live! w/ Digital I/O, LinkSys Etherfast 10/100, DSI 56k modem, Addtronics 6896A Case w/ a crap load of fans and Dynmat noise dampening in it, MAG DX715T monitor.

Hi, my name is Jammrock. I'm a computer phreak and an EverSmack addict.

[Buuri]

About that switch, with 2 or 3 machines it's only serious waste of money.

With 2 machines, what is it supposed to switch anyway?
With 3 machines, there's no use for it. When 2 machines are communicating together the 3rd one is still left out so the scenario is the same when there would be a hub and collisions. Only difference being that no data loss occurs on the other connection, while both packets are lost in a collision.

There's really no gain on a switch over a hub before, say, 8-10 machines that are using the LAN more or less concurrently.

Just an educated opinion.

_
B

[Jupp]

Hi folks,

the main difference between NETBEUI and IPX/SPX and TCP/IP is that NETBEUI doesn't carry any routing information. So if you're thinking of setting up LAN with only one segment (NO routers), NETBEUI is definetly the fastet protocol.

IPX/SPX however only makes sense, if you want to connect to a Novell Netware Server, because their native protocol to transport the NCP packets is IPX/SPX (except NW5, which uses TCP/IP aswell). It uses a little more overhead than NETBEUI and transports across routers. If you want to configure IPX, take a closer look at the frame type, as Icestorm said. If you're thinking of using TCP/IP and IPX/SPX simultaneously, Ethernet_II is the only way to go.

TCP/IP has a bigger overhead because of the sub-protocols Jammrock mentioned. It transports across routers to connect different WAN/LAN segments, i.e. the Internet. Anyway, it's rather difficult to configure.

Broadcasts.
Broadcasts are used for name resolution. If you are thinking of building a windows based Lan, you always will have broadcasts. It doesn't matter what TRANSPORT PROTOCOL you use. As long as SMB (Server Message Block, "Netbios") is used to find (communicate with) other computers on a Lan, there will be broadcasts. One way to get rid of this is to configure your LMHOSTS file (win9x/NT according to your network. Another way to minimize broadcasts and to allow Windows name resolution across routers, is to set up a WINS Server using Windows NT Server (or Linux/Samba ).

To put it in a nutshell:
Regardless, what protocol you use, the amount of broadcasts for Windows name resolution will always be the same.

Concerning the switch discussion, I would only buy and use a switch, if i had to connect more than 8 workstations to a Lan.


R.

[Jammrock]

2 words: LAN PARTY

Every been at a LAN Party with 10+ computers hooked up on a 10 Mb hub? I did it all the time before a few of us broke down and bought some switches. During a LAN party the switches made a huge difference. <10 ms pings in FPS games and no network troubles.

I just use the switch at home when I am not at a LAN Party with friends. Now if I didn't use my switch for 'other' puposes I would agree with you, it would be a huge waste of money. That and I got the switch for the same price as a 10/100 Mb hub would have cost me, so I don't mind.

Jammrock

PS - Can't we all just get along?

[Jupp]

Jammrock,

well, that's reason for a switch!


R.

I think, we do get along, don't we?

[Helevitia]

Jammrock,

What is this "broadcast" you are reffering to with TCP/IP? The only time a broadcast or multicast packet goes out is when it is being requested or set to go out at specific intervals.

Burri,

I will say that a switch would help if each PC is set at full duplex(there are full duplex 10mb nic cards). In this case, there will be no collisions. Imagine 3 computers are playing an FPS and I shoot at you, you shoot at me, me shoots back at I and we are all doing this at the same time. This means that each computer will send packets at the exact same time and since there are no such things as collisions, the switch will send everything at wire rate with no hiccups
But I agree, A switch is overboard for anything less than 12 or so nodes.

My 2 cents,

Dave

[Jammrock]

Helevitia,

When the network services are initially started, the NetBIOS name/info and the TCP/IP resources are braodcast across the network, making sure there are no duplicates and informing other computers of its exsistance on the network. From then on it broadcasts the NetBIOS and IP info every 1 minute for a set duration of time (like 15-30 minutes, don't remember). After it has been up and running for a time the broadcast interval increase to 12 minutes. At shut down, a resource release broadcast is sent out.

Like I said, the TCP/IP broadcasts are not that much, but can bog down a network under certain circumstances (i.e. in the morning when 200 computers are turned on in a 15 minutes time frame, kiss network bandwidth good bye).

Jammrock

Source: MCSE NT Workstation 4 Exam Cram, Adaptive Test Edition. The Coriolis Group, Scottsdale, Arizona, USA: p.183

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PIII 450@something higher, 256 MB RAM, 35 GB on 2 WD Expert drives, Abit Hot Rod UDMA 66 controller, CL 6x DVD, G400 32 MB DH, SB Live! w/ Digital I/O, LinkSys Etherfast 10/100, DSI 56k modem, Addtronics 6896A Case w/ a crap load of fans and Dynmat noise dampening in it, MAG DX715T monitor.

Hi, my name is Jammrock. I'm a computer phreak and an EverSmack addict.

[Buuri]

TCP/IP has a bigger overhead because of the sub-protocols Jammrock mentioned.

Do you mean overhead for a PC or a network?
If you ment network (the discussion was about that), I think you're wrong. At least my PC isn't pinging all over the place as soon as TCP/IP is installed..

_
B

[Jupp]

Buuri,

i meant the network. TCP/IP carries more internal information in each packet, which is sent over the network. This means, that you need to transfer more packets than NETBEUI, which transfers less internal information.

Let's say our packet size is 100%, then the TCP/IP information may be about 15%, the actual data is 85%. IF you use NETBEUI it might be 10% protocol information and 90% data information within one packet. This is what I meant with 'overhead'.

You're right, your PC isn't pinging around like mad, just because TCP/IP is installed. This just happens because of NetBios/SMB broadcasts as Jammrock mentioned before.

Ping ... Pong!

R.

[Helevitia]

Jammrock,

Are you referring to ARP? If so, then I see your point because ARP entries will age out at a specified time, but after they age out it doesn't mean that they will automatically be put back in the CAM(content addressable memory). The host has to continue to send data within the specified period before the arp entry ages out in order to keep the entry in the table. Of course, all of this is transparent to the user and the over head is so minimal it doesn't really matter.

Dave