Will Win98 use more that 128m memory ?

[MartinS]

Can someone settle a discussion for me. I know NT and 98 differ greatly in their memory management. Can Win98 memory manager address more than 128meg of physical Ram and if so does it use it effectively.

Thanks

[Thundrchez]

Yes, the W98 mem manager can address > 128MB ram. I've got 256MB in my w98 box.

Can it use it effectively? It uses it as effectively as it uses the rest of your ram, so NO. What a piece of trash.

[Jammrock]

I have 256 MB RAM in my computer and I am running Win98 SE. Win98 can address up to 4 GB RAM (as best I can remember). It uses effectively IMO. I rarely ever have to do any hard disk caching, even when I am playing games. Only when I load a new level or zone in EQ does my HDD even spin-up to read.

What I think you are arguing about goes back to the old Intel TX problem. The Intel TX motherboard was designed when RAM was still extremely expensive ($250+ for 8 MB). Back then no one really thought that you would use more than 64 MB. Well, suddenly RAM prices dropped and chip sizes soared and suddenly people where packing 64+ MB in their machines, but the chipset would only address 64 MB properly.

Here is a modern example for you: my ASUS P3B-F board supports 1 GB RAM, the OS supports 4 GB RAM, but my PIII 450 only supports 512 MB RAM. I can put 1 GB in, but the CPU won't address right. In most cases it will actually slow down my computer, because it exceeds CPU design.

People generally linked this problem to Win95, because everybody blames M$, when it was actually an Intel bad. So the truth is that even Win95 can address over a GB of RAM, but it is the old TX motherboards that can't use more than 64 MB right. I guess the reason why people thought this was because Win95 is a 16-bit OS. 16-bits of bus gives you 64 MB of address space (2^16). I believe that, but I am not 100% sure, that win95 can support 24-bits (2^24 = 1.6 GB) and win98 addresses 32-bits (2^32 = 4 GB). I am sure a Windows programmer can correct me if I am wrong.

Jammrock, Professor in Computing History 101

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PIII 450@504, 256 MB RAM, 35 GB total w/ WD Experts, Abit UDMA 66 controller, CL 6x DVD, PLEXTOR 8x4x32 ATAPI CD-RW (my newest toy), G400 32 MB DH, SB Live! w/ Digital I/O, LinkSys Etherfast 10/100, DSI 56k modem, Addtronics 6896A Case w/ a crap load of fans and Dynmat noise dampening, MAG DX715T monitor.

Hi, my name is Jammrock. I'm a computer phreak and an EverCrack addict.


[This message has been edited by Jammrock (edited 06 January 2000).]

[NauTiLUS]

Hi!

Yes Win98 can address 128MB or more RAM, up to Win98. If you're the lucky one, you can try it out )

Jammrock:

I think you are wrong, the Pentium III can address more than half Gigs of RAM, but not in one page, there are lot of PIII server machine, and you know in a high workload server a half giga is only a entrylevel ).

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NauTiLUS

My system looks like:
ABIT Bh6 MOBO
Intel PIII500@560 MHz
128 MB Kingston PC133 SDRAM
Matrox G400SH 32MB
Adaptec 2940 SCSI HBA
Creative SB Live!
2*4.3GB ATAPI HDD
1*2GB SCSI-2 HDD
HP 4/8 GB DAT SCSI-2
Windows 98 Lite
Windows NT 4.0 Server SP4

[Rags]

Hi Jammrock,

The old TX maximum cacheable RAM of 64MB problem was due to the limitation of having your L2 cache on the motherboard, with 128K L2, your cacheable area was 32Meg , while the 512K had 64Meg. That was one of the reasons that Intel decided to put the L2 on the cartridge/chip. This way, they could just simply reprogram the processor's L2 to accept more cacheable RAM. With the first P2's, the max allowed cacheable RAM was 512MB, the celeron had unlimited (because it had no cache), then after the Deschutes core came out, they allotted a minimum of 2GB cacheable area, so your P3 can cache much more than 512MB.

Rags




[This message has been edited by Rags (edited 06 January 2000).]

[Thundrchez]

The win9x memory manager does not protect processes from each other. You can write one program that will completely clobber the memory assigned to another program. All *nixes give you a far superior protection for memory assigned to each program. NT is far superior to 9x in this ballpark.

If just one thing is messed up in a program, it can cause your entire win9x os to crash. Win9x is the absolute worst software development platform for this reason. That's why Quake3 was developed on winnt boxes.

[Mark F]

my 2cents-
I don't think the TX's 64MB limit was the 'fault' of the on motherboard L2. If it was then one of the other PENTIUM chipsets (think it was the HX), would not have been able to address so much more memory. This leads me to beleave it was the chipset not the on-MoBo L2.

As for the TX not being able to use more than 64MB? Well it was not efficiant with it, as it was not casheable. So in most circumstances it would run slower with more than 64MB. However in situations where more memory was needed (ie. editting large graphics files or videos) it was still faster/better to have the larger memory available, rather than going to Virtual memory.

Also as for the PIII 450 only supporting 512 MB RAM. That is wrong. The 450/500/550/600B/533 can address 4GB.


Mark F.

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OH NO, my retractable cup holder swallowed a CD

[Rags]

Hey MarkF,

My point was that it was up to the motherboard to control how much RAM could be cached to the L2, that is why the motherboard no longer represents a limitation anymore. The L2 is programmed with the processor now.

Rags

[traverso]

Bonjour

i remember (but it's so far) that with the x386 and x486 the different management of the ram was if the processor runs in protect mode or real mode to have compatibility with dos program and x86 family.
it depend of the os. if you use novell os or i think os2 you see all the ram on line. the maximum is define by chipset and ofcourse mother board.
i remember that the first x86 can only adress 64 Mo. so for the x386 and upper they manage ram with segment (64mo). remember himem and emm386 files.
i don't know if there are the same protect and real mode on pii and piii. someone know ? and so if there is, if win9x run's in protected mode or real mode. win9x can run's dos program, more difficult for nt.

excuse my english.

[Jammrock]

oops...did I say 'my PIII', I meant 'the PII line'. Really I did...

hehe

Jammrock

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PIII 450@504, 256 MB RAM, 35 GB total w/ WD Experts, Abit UDMA 66 controller, CL 6x DVD, PLEXTOR 8x4x32 ATAPI CD-RW (my newest toy), G400 32 MB DH, SB Live! w/ Digital I/O, LinkSys Etherfast 10/100, DSI 56k modem, Addtronics 6896A Case w/ a crap load of fans and Dynmat noise dampening, MAG DX715T monitor.

Hi, my name is Jammrock. I'm a computer phreak and an EverCrack addict.