Announcement

**alessandro** · 8 January 2000, 08:20

Try Ricoh ,Yamaha and Plextor.I'm more then extremely happy with my Ricoh MP7040S because not only after 300 CD burnings i HAVEN'T had not even ONE bad recording(maybe because it's a SCSI one?),but also because i have upgrated to a MP7060S with an easy firmware tweak .So now i have a 6x recording speed instead the 4x i used too,no problem

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Pentium II 450Mhz@504,Asus P2B rev.1011,17" Sony Multiscan 200PST,128MB PC100 ram,Matrox Millenium G400 MAX 32MB 5ns SGRAM,Quantum Firebal EL 10.2Gb,Epson Stylus Color 740,Sound blaster Live!,Cambridge Soundworks 5.1,Creative PC-DVD 5X,CDR-RW Ricoh MP7040S@MP7060S(Tweaked from 4x--->6x with no problem),Adaptec SCSI 2920C,Diamond SupraExpress 56e PRO,Iomega Zip Drive.

**RAB** · 8 January 2000, 08:45

The reason some CD-ROM's and DVD-ROM's can't read CD-RW's is because they need a reader. Kind of like Acrobat reader for CD-RW's but it works through Windows Explorer. Get the reader here and install it:
http://www.adaptec.com/support/files/udfreaders.html

RAB

**Snark** · 8 January 2000, 17:05

CD-Writers

I've been thinking of getting a cd-writer for this computer o' mine for a while and I've been thinking... what brand and model of a cd writer should I get? I heard that some cd-writers are quite bad, in that the written cd can't read after its been written. Just wondering which brand of cd-writer is the most reliable and fast. Thanks for your feedback for such a crappy question.

Later,

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My CPU: PIII 500 Mhz @520 Mhz (Hey I did'nt OC!!!)
SB Live (Full)
Millenium G400 32 mb DH (no MAX)
256 mb SDRam PC-100 (No ECC)
ABit BE-6 mb
17 GB Seagate ATA 66 HDD
SoundWorks FPS 2000
US Robotics V.90 Fax Modem
40x NEC CD-Rom
17" Philips 107MB monitor

--Everyone wants a snarky... ...YEAH RIGHT--

[This message has been edited by Snark (edited 08 January 2000).]

**Gurm** · 8 January 2000, 17:07

Rab:

Your comment only applies to Adaptec's proprietary packet-writing system called DirectCD... which is an abomination of a program, as it causes virtually every system upon which it is installed to eventually expire.

The reason some CD-ROM drives can't read CDRW's is because the laser just isn't set up for it. Similarly, some CD-ROM's can't even read CDR's because of that.

And last but not least, cruddy CD burners make cruddy CD's, some of which can't be read by the majority of CD-ROM's.

I can personally vouch for both Memorex, which is boring but stable, and Yamaha, which is nice and also stable. Ricoh wasn't so hot for me, at least not their SCSI burner - it couldn't rip audio for anything... all full of skips and pops. Also, Acer makes a good CDR, although they just swipe others technology it's usually GOOD technology.

Sony and HP are actually brands to avoid, due to their inferior digital audio capabilities.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

**HollyBerri** · 8 January 2000, 18:29

Yes, Snark, RAB is right, but actually there are several issues here.

There are 2 kinds of recordable CD's and 2 ways to record data (not audio) on them.

You already know there are CD-Rs (not re-recordable) and CD-RWs (re-recordable).

When you get your CD-RW drive (don't bother with a CD-R drive), you'll get 2 recording programs with it: Easy CD Creator, and DirectCD.

The difference between them is that Easy CD has a whole interface, whereby you copy files to a CD layout, which is then recorded. You cannot move or archive files or whatever using this program, and when it closes the session, it will close a CD-R to ISO-9660-- standard CD format, which you should be able to read this in most CD-ROMs anywhere-- and a CD-RW to regular Multi-Read, which you should be able to read in all Multi-Read CD-RWs without additional software.

According to this page, CD-RWs must have a Multi-Read drive no matter what, and CD-Rs won't be readable beyond the first session if the other drive doesn't have Multisession capacity.

DirectCD enables you to copy files to your CD direcly from the Explorer as if it was a floppy drive. You can also cut and paste files to the CD. BUT this requires you to format the CD for DirectCD, and this is done in 2 different ways depending on whether it's a CD-R or CD-RW.

When you eject a DirectCD (CD-RW) disk, you must have the UDF reader mentioned above for it to be read by a Multi-Read drive. That's what it means when a CD-ROM says it supports the CD-RW format-- but many old ones don't; I just had to downgrade my Nakamichi 5-disk changer to my 2nd system, because it's not Multi-Read, whether I have the UDF reader or not (sees them all as .cda --CD Audio-- tracks and tries to read 'em with RealJukebox, lol).

This applies to CD-RWs, but with CD-Rs you get another choice. CD-Rs can be ejected from DirectCD in standard (ISO- 9660) format, which can be read by most CD drives, even old ones... If I recall, the Nakamichi did read CD-Rs OK... but then I always close out my CD-Rs to ISO-9660....but then if you want to put more on the CD-R, you're starting a <u>new session</u> (you closed the old one into ISO-9660), and you need a Multisession drive to read the subsequent sessions....

...but CD-RW's are not closeable in ISO-9660 format, thus you need that UDF reader, no matter what. But I think that much of the time, it's already installed somehow, at least I've had no need to install it with the CD-ROM drives at work... but I did need to install it so my new DVD-ROM drive could read them.

I personally have a HP 8100i which works fine (I always find HP hardware very sturdy--it may suck, but it won't break...) and use DirectCD all the time... have never had a problem with it till my HDD died and I'm restoring from DirectCD backups and I can't find the CD to reinstall DirectCD... the files on the CD-RWs can be read, are being very touchy about being copied... if the files can be copied, they are copied as 'read only' and have to be manually reset in order to be used.

...but I can still copy and use these files via this (hideous) workaround till I find wtf I did with the HP CD... so I've gotta admit, it's all good...coulda been waaaay worse with an unexpected HDD loss (via Norton Utilities... just don't ask... though you can read about it in The Box if you just gotta know why I have a new .sig).

Memorex and Yamaha have the least expensive units... but be sure you don't accidentally get one of the 2X2X6 units, (or the HP 7200i, for the same reason) at about the same $175 that you could spend on a 2X2X24 (think this is the speed of the Memorex unit) , 2X4X24(HP 8100i AND 8110i), or 4X4X16 (the Yamaha unit, I think).

Good luck!

------------------
Holly

Yeah, yeah, system specs, whatever...

System 1, (up and in the shower--i.e. Configuration Mode):

DFI 2BXPL, Celeron 333 (not currently o/c), 1 stick 128MB PC100 SDRAM, Maxtor 20GB HDD (woohoo!), Phillips Mag 107B 17" monitor;
Acer 10X DVD-ROM, HP 8100i CD-RW;
G400 MAX , Diamond Monster Sound MX300, Iwill Ultra66 controller, Trend 10/100 Fast Ethernet controller (disabled), Cirrus Logic v.90 PCI modem;
USB webcam and Acer 620 USB scanner;
....and a PS/2 keyboard and mouse ( )

System 2 (still in bed with the covers over its head):

A-Trend 6130 LX board, PII-266, 1 stick 128MB PC100 SDRAM, Maxtor 20GB HDD (yes, I bought 2; they were on sale!!);
Nakamichi 5-disk CD changer;
Iwill Ultra66 Controller (yes, I bought 2), Trend 10/100 Fast Ethernet card (bought 4), and my trusty old cards-- G200 8MB SGRAM , Ensoniq Soundscape, Boca Research 33.6 ISA modem;
...and a standard keyboard and PS/2 trackball (Logitech Marble, fyi )

Well, you asked....! All right, you didn't ask.... tough noogies.

[This message has been edited by HollyBerri (edited 09 January 2000).]

**Wombat** · 8 January 2000, 19:53

<H1> Hey! That's my company! </H1>

Sorry, I work for HP next summer. Microprocessor design - should be a kickass job.
A lot of my family members have HP CD-RW's & printers, although I don't. They seem to have no problems with them, but I know they also don't have a use for digital audio in their PC's.

My .02

**Gurm** · 8 January 2000, 20:31

Couple replies:

Wombat:

The HP CDR devices are very stable and very reliable. No coasters here. BUT, ripping non-pc formats, audio, or basically anything unusual with them is BEGGING for trouble.

Holly:

Not to take up an opposing position just to piss you off, but... please don't encourage ANYONE to use DirectCD until Adaptec gets around to fixing it (which hasn't happened in the past two years, so it may never happen!). I have found that EVERY system I've installed it on has been completely screwed by it. *SIGH*

And All:

I honestly don't understand why people even use CDRW. CDR is so cheap now that you can throw them away when you're done with them, and they are often 4 times as fast. The fastest CDRW on the planet right now is 4x, and most media can't handle 4x. Plus CDRW can't properly handle cd-audio. Oh, well. Lost cause I guess.

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

**HollyBerri** · 8 January 2000, 20:57

Well, I'm sure that's very nice and all, Wombat...

<font size =4>...but what does it have to do with CHEESE???</font>

Seriously, though, that sounds great... congratulations! My experience with HP is mostly in the office: 1 5L laser printer, an old-version HP Pavillion (back when they had the most hideous "user-friendly" software shell you can imagine) and 2 current Pavillions (the 6310, which is on sale everywhere because it's a piece of trash--K6-2 333 {you know I know about that}, with some SiS integrated video that crashes all the time and prolly an integrated modem as well, which would explain why we half the time can't get online, or stay online here)), one of which was bundled with the DeskJet 672C, which is the slowest printer in the history of man, with pretty crappy output as well.

But like I said, their hardware is very sturdy, not cheaply made at all, which is a plus...quite attractive, and those things that do work well (laser printers, CD-RWs) will last you forever. Heck, I'm sure those things that don't work well will last you forever! And their monitors are quite nice, too.

So, despite having had less-than-great experiences with HP hardware, I would still consider their offerings for any component I might buy. Which is to say, that it's a good company, if a customer can say that. Hope you have a great work experience there.

---------------------------
Holly

**HollyBerri** · 8 January 2000, 21:10

Gurm, you mean IDE CD-RW, don't you? I think the SCSI side is up to (or beyond) 8X8X20....

I didn't think I was encouraging anyone to use DirectCD as opposed to just saying that I find it really useful.

Your statements certainly give me pause, since I trust your PC savvy --- but my experience is quite different.

So explain, please--- what do you mean by "screwed"?

And... I guess I use CD-RW because I back up to it and I don't always want to re-record an entire disk just because I want to save the new version of Winamp or File-Ex. I admit, my only experience with CD-Audio recording is transferring .mp3 files to CD so I can play them while I work... which I guess is not quite what you mean .

So what do you mean, anyway ?

-------------------------
Holly

**Gurm** · 9 January 2000, 12:34

Holly:

What I mean by "screwed" is that DirectCD tends to make a Win9x system unstable. It adds a filesystem to the mix (UDF) in a less-than-optimal way. Obviously not EVERYONE has this problem, otherwise Adaptec couldn't possibly sell the product. But many many systems I've seen have problems with it. Some of these include:

- Shutdown problems
- Bluescreens
- Spontaneous hanging
- VXD errors

Etc.

As for "audio", I refer to the ability of a drive to transfer digital audio direct from a CD to your computer. 99% of all "fast" CD-ROM drives can only transfer audio at perhaps 3x, usually not at all... digitally. If you ever hear an MP3 with lots of hissing and clicks and pops, it's probably a bad audio read from a CD. Burners usually read audio at least as fast as they can write. My Yamaha, for example, can read digital audio at 6x. However, some (such as the HP and Sony models) can't even sync it properly at 2x. Kinda inconvenient to take 5 minutes to "read" a 5 minute song!

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

**Rags** · 9 January 2000, 12:49

The Yamaha IDE or SCSI is, indeed, a nice unit either way. It's fast, no coasters, nice buffer, and it's not too high priced.

Rags

**Wombat** · 9 January 2000, 13:06

I just got a Phillips 6x2x2. It was pretty much payment for services rendered. Slow, but this is better than no CD-R at all. I hope it works out okay.

**Taz** · 9 January 2000, 15:42

I'm using a Wearnes CDRW-1688 which before you all laugh is just a re-badged Yamaha but cost about £ 30.00 less. I have no probs so far with it and as I have been using a Yamaha drive at work for over a year without problems expect this to be the same. The early HP writers weren't very good mostly because they only had a 512Kb buffer but the newer ones are a lot better. You don't mention whether you are going to be using SCSI or IDE but I would buy Yamaha for IDE or Plextor/Yamaha for SCSI.

**Snark** · 12 January 2000, 02:32

!
Did'nt think of that. Anyway, I think I'll get a Plextor SCSI one. Thanks for the suggestions guys!

------------------
My CPU: PIII 500 Mhz @520 Mhz (Hey I did'nt OC!!!)
SB Live (Full)
Millenium G400 32 mb DH (no MAX)
256 mb SDRam PC-100 (No ECC)
ABit BE-6 mb
17 GB Seagate ATA 66 HDD
SoundWorks FPS 2000
US Robotics V.90 Fax Modem
40x NEC CD-Rom
17" Philips 107MB monitor

--Everyone wants a snarky... ...YEAH RIGHT--

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