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  • #16
    I don't have problems with nVidia products, per se: I own a TNT2, I have a TNT in the closet somewhere, and I suspect I'll buy another nVidia board sometime in the future. It's their business model that concerns me, and there was no way I would consider purchasing a GeForce given what I *knew* would happen.

    The GeForce DDR looks like a really nice board. But nVidia made their intentions really clear this time. It appears that three months after the DDR board becomes available (sort of, I've yet to see one in a store), nVidia will release a board that eclipses it substantially. And the GeForce DDR is not cheap. It's just not worth it.

    I think the fact that users insist on comparing the G400 Max to the GeForce instead of the TNT2 Ultra is telling. At first I found it ludicrous, because the G400 is of the same generation as the TNT2. But now I think the Max is such a solid, well-designed board, that it actually holds it own in what is essentially an unfair comparison.

    I think this 2D/image quality king business is getting a little old. I expect this from Matrox, and I take it for granted. The gap has closed somewhat, however. The Voodoo3 is a very good 2D board and nVidia has improved substantially in the image quality department.

    But one doesn't pay in excess of $250.00 for image quality alone. Given that the Max actually turned out to be a faster OpenGL board than its main competition, the TNT2 Ultra, suggests that Matrox has no intention of sitting on its hands when it comes to framerates.

    (Given all the talk about how the G400's Warp engine may be capable of T&L now suggests to me that we might very well be seeing this feature in upcoming boards.)

    I do think Matrox users feel competitive with nVidia users, and, to a certain extent, I think this competition was imposed upon us.

    In July, after the thunderously stupid 3dfx/nVidia video wars on USENET began winding down, the G400 came out and new owners, using immature drivers, began happily posting numbers. Inevitably, the post would be followed by a message that read, "well, my Diamond TNT2U blah, blah, blah."

    To this day, nVidia users register on this forum just to tell us about how fast their GeForces are and explain how we are dupes for buying a Matrox product.

    And how often do we have to see some incompetent newbie with an "I'm the big techno-whiz" username, a power supply built around a hamster on a treadmill, and a "defective" G400, threaten us with the purchase of a GeForce?

    At best it falls on deaf ears. At worst, it really gets on your nerves.

    Paul
    paulcs@flashcom.net

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    • #17
      wombat: read the original thread. they were stating that nvidia was ripping off matrox features by having dual display support. The poster implied that matrox was the creator of dual display, which they are not.

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      • #18
        What I find amusing in retrospect is the fact that Michael Gold of NVIDIA was proclaiming on usenet how great the TNT 2 would be. (Play all your games at higher resolutions, how about 1600x1200? Drivers are much improved, etc, etc.) Fillrate is king essentially, with a bit of wink wink, nudge nudge thrown in as if to say it's really better than I made out, just wait and see. This is really amusing considering he must have known how quickly it would be eclipsed by the GeForce card.

        When I decided to upgrade from a TNT to a G400, it was that Matrox vs NVIDIA came down to a case of "The devil you don't know can't be any worse than the devil you know".
        Matrox hasn't been good or bad, mainly just invisible, I still don't have much of an opinion on them either way. Not exactly a triumph in marketing.

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        • #19
          I wasn't trying to start a real long debate, and maybe my choice of words was not great. I like the G400max better than any other video card I have ever owned. And I've had just about any mainstream video card you can name (ATI Fury, V1, V2, V3 3000, V3 3500, TnT, TnT2U, GeForce, G400Max). I am just anxious for Matrox's next generation card, because the G400Max was/is a fabulous card and it can only get better. I hope.
          Wombat, you are probably correct. I am not a PR person. I don't know about marketing and don't claim too. I am just curious about the upcoming products.

          Gasoline

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          • #20
            Damn, I didn't get to see the article, Nvidia made them remove it
            [size=1]D3/\/7YCR4CK3R
            Ryzen: Asrock B450M Pro4, Ryzen 5 2600, 16GB G-Skill Ripjaws V Series DDR4 PC4-25600 RAM, 1TB Seagate SATA HD, 256GB myDigital PCIEx4 M.2 SSD, Samsung LI24T350FHNXZA 24" HDMI LED monitor, Klipsch Promedia 4.2 400, Win11
            Home: M1 Mac Mini 8GB 256GB
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            • #21
              OH MY GOD!!

              A COMPANY RELEASED A PRODUCT THAT DID NOT LIVE UP TO ITS ADVERTISED SPECS!!!!

              Man, have ANY of you people EVER worked in a retail environement????

              I saw this happen so many times when I worked at a bicycle shopand I have seen it just as many times in the computer industry as well.

              "Specifications are subject to change without prior notice."

              DUH! Thats there for the sole reason of proclaiming what a product can do as said in PR magic. Any one who believe PR hype 100% is mentally sad. This isnt the first time for any company to change the specs on the fly.

              My tip to all of you: wait until its in available quantities and has had reviews in several publications/sites so you actually know what it will do.

              CB
              Abit BX6 Rev.1
              Celeron 366A PPGA @ 566, 2.1v
              192 meg RAM, CAS2
              13.0 gig Maxtor 4320 HD
              6.0 gig Maxtor (in removeable drive bay)
              HP8110i 4x2x24
              Pioneer DVD-104
              SB Live! 1024
              USB ZIP 100
              G400 32MB DH 5ns RAM at 187/211
              Two KDS 17" Trinitron monitors
              YAMAHA HTR-5140 Reciever

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              • #22
                paulcs... i agree that nvidia's product cycles are spaced too close,but since they're on a 6 month release scedule,that means what whatever card one chooses to purchase from them will not be the best for long,so even in your case where you're deciding to wait until an updated Geforce comes out(maybe april/may timeframe)you can be sure that before you'll get to use the card(should you buy it of course)for 2/3months,you and i will be hearing about how good nv 20 will be,it's a no win situation.and coming back to matrox,whatever product they have in development right now should not be targeting the overall performance of the existing Geforce nor the updated one,it has to beat both by a fair margin to have any aspirations to become the new heavyweight in 3d performance this year(and in sales),especially since matrox releases new products once a year.my 0.2 cents .
                note to self...

                Assumption is the mother of all f***ups....

                Primary system :
                P4 2.8 ghz,1 gig DDR pc 2700(kingston),Radeon 9700(stock clock),audigy platinum and scsi all the way...

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                • #23
                  The question should be, does Matrox, or anyone else, need a new chip ready this month?
                  nVidia is working hard to keep their users spending the bucks, but the benchmark reviews are showing that the increased performance isn't showing up on most people's systems.
                  Maybe the potential is there, but why waste the money?

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                  • #24
                    The reason companies come out with new products in general is so that other companies won't provide alternatives and take away sales. NVIDIA is in the business of creating chip designs, not boards, something to keep in mind, having one out the door doesn't mean they stop, basically that job is done, the marks have coughed up the cash, time to move on and use the beta testers (aka customers) to help with the next job. Being fast with new products is the strategy NVIDIA is using, providing alternatives faster than the other guy makes sense to me, and for them it seems to be working. Matrox's once a year strategy with value added complete products seems to be working for them as well, they went from essentially nobody in gaming circles to being pretty much second place (or tied with second with.. oh well pick somebody ), not sure whether it's to their credit or the falling behind of 3dfx et al. Whether more in the box like dual head and EMBM will work next time around is something else. Glad it's not my job.


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