electrical wiring

[VJ]

The electrician has the first version of the plans... Today I would send him a more detailed version.

Just thought of something: if you hang a TV on a wall (and the new TVs are very slim and only a few mm off the wall), how does it go with sockets and other cabling?
I found wall plates that are flush with the wall, but is that sufficient?


Jörg

[degrub]

you need right angle connectors, or flush right angle connectors. Ask the electrician about them. Otherwise, if there is room in the wall have the plug recessed.

Or just use a mounting fixture that stands the TV off from the wall about 3 inches minimum.

[VJ]

Yesterday I went to the place where I will get the switches and sockets. The guy there was very helpful and clearly knew what he was talking about. For the TV cabling, he suggests just putting a 60mm tube from where the TV is to where you want to put the other devices. This allows everything. He gave one example where the hdmi-cat5 converters fail: audio return channel. This is not that important for me though (given the way things are connected), so I'm not clear on it yet. But it could be more elegant.

But I'm again wondering about some home automation system, now not for convenience of having less cables, but just for comfort. The system would be wired, and thus cheaper than the wireless one. I'll go there again this afternoon to have more detailed information and price information.
In the current form, I will have 3 room thermostats in different rooms; by adding wiring I can change this to one central unit with 2 sensors. Pricewise it might be competitive and allow for more features and easier usage.

I have not found right angle connectors, only a flush mounted socket.

Jörg

[VJ]

Electrician is delayed... his father is in the hospital...

But I went to the shop that sells the switches, sockets, etc... And I have decided to go for a simple home automation: the price difference is not that big (stand alone thermostats costs quite a lot, and the control units contain 4 switches that can be used as light switches) and it is easily extendible. It will use the open standard knx/eib, so that is positive.

It requires a slightly different wiring, so the electrician should go to the shop to make sure he knows how to do it (if he hasn't put a knx/eib system before). The shop also notified that they have electricians the frequently work with, so that is still an option if the electrician turns out not to have the time due to family issues or does not want to try the different wiring.

Jörg

[VJ]

More delay: the electrician's father passed away today... Obviously he needs time and spend time with his family; and as I'm away the week after next, it means at least 2 weeks delay...

[degrub]

welcome to the world of remodeling. 2x time 2x cost

[VJ]

Yes... It is mainly because there we some unexpected surprises (also good ones: we uncovered the original wooden floor, which is much nicer than the panels that were covering it) and a change of planning. Electricity will be more expensive as I will go with a KNX system, but it is either now or never.

Initial plan was to finish by then end of May, now I am aiming for then end of June...

And I keep seeing visions of The Money Pit.

[VJ]

The electrician was said to come at 8, my friend who helps me translate is now out of the country for some time, but she was on Skype to be called upon. At 8.45, still nobody, she Skyped her mother, asking her to call the electrician. Apparently, there was some misunderstanding as he awaited confirmation. Anyway, shorly after 11.30 (!!!!) he arrived. We had a 2 hour talk with translation over Skype going over the plans, but now everything looks clear, and we are set to go.
So the start would be this afternoon, possibly Friday, possibly Saturday, but at the latest Monday. It is assumed to take about 2-3 days to cut the openings in the walls. So finally, things are under way again.

At the beginning, he looked quite nervous (as did I probably), but thanks to the translator, we both calmed down: it became clear to him what had to be done and it became clear to me that he knew what had to be done. He made some notes on the plans, suggested some changes (due to technical impossibilities) and everything looks to be ok now...

It will be a huge mess: cutting for all the wiring in the apartment, but it just has to be done.

Jörg

[Chucky Cheese]

It will be worth the wait !!

It will be soooooo nice and functional when it is done though!

[VJ]

Ok, first day over. He seems to work very cleanly, so that is very positive.

One thing I noticed though: he ran a Cat5e cable (unshielded) right next to the powercables. I had indicated to use Cat6 cable, so today I'll have to get somebody to call him...

It does look like his first estimate regarding the number of days was optimistic. At this rate, I suspect it take 4-5 days rather than 2-3 (but I have the impression his work is made more difficult due to the construction). Still, not too bad...

[degrub]

Cat 6 requires extra care, knowledge, and testing in installation. If the shield is not properly grounded it can be worse than Cat 5E. Either way, usually the minimum separation distance is about .3 m from 120v AC.

[VJ]

Thanks for that info; I'll double check things!

I was quite shocked to see him put a Cat5e UTP cable (thus not STP or FTP) together with the 240 v AC cables... Somehow I think most of these things are just getting too complex for normal electricians...

[degrub]

The twisted pair, if terminated properly, will be mostly immune to the 50/60 cycle induced on them because they will be 180 degrees out of phase and the noise will cancel. They should not be run in the same channel however with higher voltage lines. Usually the national or local electrical code specified what is required for data wiring installation.

[VJ]

Ok, a bigger problem has surfaced: despite what he told me, I'm not too convinced he has installed a KNX system before: he is just wiring for normal switches. As I cannot communicate with him directly, everything has to go via a third person, which complicates matters.

So now I guess we should halt everything, manage a way to sit together and check if he knows how to wire for this intelligent system. If not, I'm back at square one...

About the network: I know it is recommended not to put them together, so it really surprises me that he ties the cables together. If it was me, I would route them even differently.

[VJ]

And its confirmed: he has no experience wiring for KNX... Why did he tell me he did? We asked him a couple of times, and he kept saying it was no problem. He already put some cables, and for sure some of them will have to be changed. But it is his problem.

Tomorrow he will contact the shop (I assumed he would have done this faster) to learn how to wire for it. I hope he also learns how to program it (it does not look too complicated), or I would have no lights... He also asked me to indicate on the walls where everything should go, but as the lights have been removed, I can only do that in the morning (I come home quite late).

As my luck would have it, the representative in the shop who speaks English and handles my case is not there this week. So I hope other people there can help the electrician. The planning is that he continues on Friday with the cabling, and that I'll go to the shop on Monday to pick up items. He can then start installing them on Tuesday...

Meanwhile, I'm now sleeping on an inflatable matress (1.5 cm thick - or thin) on the floor in the corridor, as the rooms are too dusty and almost everything is wrapped up.

For sure, I will check all the cables before everything will be closed up.