OK, Alfie, RAB and Paul...you got me into this!

[Bixler]

Hey guys! Where can I get one of those neato fans that fits in a card slot? I need to get more air moving through my case, and the trusty Radio Shack ain't doing enough all by itself.

Tim--hurriedly sewing all the mattress tags back on that he ripped off in his frenzy of yesterday.

[Wombat]

Try www.3dfxcool.com

Also, just follow links from the folks at www.heatsink-guide.com

[Scout255]

You can also try <a href="http://www.2cooltek.com"> 2cooltek </a> bought all my cooling stuff from them, they are a real good company, i would recomend the to anyone.

[Bixler]

OK guys, which is it?

Do you Suck, or do you Blow?

It turns out that my Power supply fan is sucking. So should I set up the front case fan to blow? I suppose I could flip the PS fan around, or whatever. I've seen some discussion in the FORI on this subject, but it has been hard to tell in the archives which is the best. Some recommend positive case pressure, some want a vacuum.

My intentions are as follows. I will install (have installed) a 3in front case fan, and I intend to order one of those neato slot mounted fans. That will give me four. The Processor, the Power supply, Front case, and Slot...

Weigh in and recommend, please.

BTW, with the case off, the little processor fan does just fine all by itself. I have been running that way now continuously for 30 hrs, with no instability.

[SteveC]

I think that the best cooling system is cold air in at the front-bottom, and the hot air goes out at the rear-top. Remember heat rises and so don't start fighting the laws of physics (been there, done that, and lost ). Then you have neither positive- or negative- pressure.

------------------
Cheers,
Steve

"The chances of anything coming from Mars, are a million-to-one", he said.

[Bixler]

Thanks for the advice from experience, Steve. (always the best kind.)

If I set up my PS fan to blow (I think I can), and the Front case to suck...Do you think I would need the little neato slot fan as well?

My Processor is very near the top of the case, centered from front to back, and the PS is high mounted too. So sucking cool air in from low/front and letting the PS fan exhaust the hot air out the high/back should do it.??? I think, the way it's laid out, my CPU is a little off the path (above) the bottom to top diagonal airflow that this would set up.

Anyway, thanks for the advice...I'm still a little bugged that a measly 5% overclock should be this problematical.

BTW Alfie, RAB and Paul: I HAVE noticed a considerable boost in speed. I can load a 5mb wave file in less than 1/2 second now...that's a BIG single wave file. NICE!

[Wombat]

Wow,
You decided to reverse the fan before I even got here.
Yes, having the fan blow in was a stupid idea. They even got around to revising the standard so that the PS fan is now "supposed" to blow out (I think that's the .01 in ATX 2.01 standard).

About the slot fan: You may not need it for the CPU, but if you decide to go for it, be thoughtful where you put it. I moved some of my parts around so that I could but my slot fan in the space above the AGP slot, and it gave my G200 extra overclocking potential.

[paulcs]

I think slot fans near the AGP slot should blow out at well. I once created a nice little circular wind pattern where the power supply fan blew out hot air and a second fan I had in the back just sucked it back in. After adding that second fan, my case temperature shot up. Reversing it did the opposite.

Steve is right about the laws of physics. They're not to be toyed with.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Bixler]

Just ordered a neato slot fan and a front case fan from 3dfxcool. Neat site Wombat!

Scout: I tried to check the site you recommended, but their server was CRAWLING...couldn't wait that long.

PaulCS and SteveC: Your good advice will be followed carefully. Now if I can get that RMA on my 64Mb DIMM, I'll be screamin!

(I just taped the mattress tags back on until I'm through with this BTW )

Thanks for EVERYTHING!

[Bixler]

Update:

Just got off the phone with PCShoppingPlanet. Remember the name...don't go there. No joy on the SDRAM problem. Screw 'em!

While I was fighting between CS and Tech support, the techie (this ain't his fault after all) suggested I try an undocumented fix from SOYO which was to set my SDRAM to run at the frequency of the AGP Bus instead of the CPU bus.

OK, It runs, and runs stable...but have I given up any performance here?

With this jumper change, I can set the FSB switches to 100Mhz and I have all my memory. The CPU multiplier will recognize all the options as well, (although I can't push the CPU to 450 which is what the next step will give me at 100 Mhz FSB--I get a windows protection error.) I Don't need to push that hard anyway, I suppose. All the other options and settings work as well, but is this Optimal? Remember, I can't set the SDRAM to run at 100 off the CPU Bus clock, or I lose the substandard stick that these chislers won't take back. (Bought 14 mo. ago--only a 1 yr warranty)

Time for a SS7 guru. Help, guys...it's learning time.

[Wombat]

You're almost certainly better with the RAM running on a 95MHz bus. With full-speed L2-cache on the chip (what makes the K6-3 a 3 and not a 2), the math could get more convoluted, but I would think it's more important to have the processor be able to communicate with the CPU at 95Mhz, than to slow that link down for the sake of the processor.
However, this is all just educated guesswork. Sometimes in life you simply have to try it both ways, and test. If I really wanted to know, I'd benchmark it both ways.

Without the legwork, leave the RAM running with a 95Mhz FSB.

[Bixler]

Thanks Wombat!

I had the same idea in mind--but it does help to get a little confirmation. And with the 95mhz FSB I do get a little kick out of Overclocking the processor at 428Mhz along with the extra memory speed. Now if I can only keep it stable with the case on, I'll be running pretty again.

Thanks for the help! --And that doesn't mean I won't listen to other opinions as well.

Tim--Never one to bother with benchmarks, headed off to Download SANDRA.

[Alfie]

Tim,
Setting it at agp speed is at 66mhz bus speed,You most definitely will be taking a hit on performance,remember by overclocking the cpu,it's the cpu itself thats getting hot.
It's far more adviseable to get a specific cpu fan and heatsink from either merchant mentioned.
Cooling the case helps,but...
Cool that cpu!
If the sytem is running ok at the overclock and the memory is holding just get that cpu running cooler and all should be well.
It's kind of like if your house is hot,cool the house,not the garage!
ps.Set in bios 10ns instead of 8ns,try that to see if both sticks will run on 100 mhz bus speed.

[This message has been edited by Alfie (edited 04 January 2000).]

[Bixler]

Did you ever notice how things you thought you knew don't matter until you have solve a concrete problem?

Thanks for the interpretation Alfie. I was highly suspicious of the advice about the setting to the AGP clock as well, and you have confirmed it. (The $#^** Rat bastids!) I am back to 95Mhz FSB and running fine--with the case off.

Alfie: Are you saying I went after the heat problem bass-ackwards? Let me argue my thinking, and then I WILL listen to any further advice given...

The fan/heatsink combo I'm using are considerably larger than that on my old K62, and did come with the new processor. They seem to be doing VERY well with the case off. With the case off, I can barely feel any heat on the fins above ambient temperature.

PLEASE argue with my thinking, but if the current sink/fan combo doesn't generate a volume of heat that I can readily feel, then the heat problem that caused my lockup is one of a slow buildup of heat generated because the rather slight heat coming off the processor isn't being pulled out of the case fast enough.

Here's why I think that's correct...I left the case off and let the machine run for 24 hours, and when I touched the heatsink at that point, it was just slightly warm to the touch...I don't have a temp. probe, but it wasn't much above ambient. That's what fooled me into thinking I could just pop my trusty old shell back on and be done with it. In fact, case on, I ran all evening before going to bed with no instability at all, and left the machine on overnight.

But

When I woke up the next morning, she was locked up tight, and quite hot to the touch.

Then

I tried the cheezy Radio Shack fan, but could only mount it to suck air in (I did try both ways---the fan blades wouldn't let me mount the other way.) Well, my PS fan also sucks...so I have deduced that two sucks really suck.

I've already ordered the two case fans, and will reverse the PS fan to blow out, which will give me two blows at the back and a sucker up front. If that doesn't move enough cool air through the case, then the K6III's suck! (Just kidding...couldn't resist)

Thanks for the good advice Alfie...and PaulCS above for that warning about circular patterns too. It's nice to draw on this kind of knowlege base. I Really appreciate it.

Just weigh in again, Alfie if you still think I'm bass-ackwards. Thanks Again.

[Wombat]

Bixler,
Sounds like you have the right idea with the fans.
One other thing though: the heatsink on your K6-3, how is it attached? I found that I could OC some even with the cheap-o standard heatsink, but only if I greased it correctly. Do you have a thin layer of thermal grease between the heatsink and the CPU?

I just ask, b/c you may be caught in a common trap. Heatsinks are successfully cool if they are dissipating the heat from the CPU. If they have poor contact with the CPU, then they will seem cool b/c they aren't getting the heat in order to send it off, and your CPU is cooking away.