OK, Alfie, RAB and Paul...you got me into this!

[Bixler]

Good point, Wombat...and one I think I've covered. I used a liquid heatsink compound between the surface of the processor and the sink (Radio Shack again!) that's supposed to enhance the contact. We'll see, and I will keep a close eye on that. I've never seen this liquid stuff before (more used to the white grease from my old audio days) but it seems to be working well.

Thanks for the tip and the caution! I appreciate it!

[DentyCracker]

I have a 32MB DIMM stick which will boot my machine (VA-503+) iff (if and only if) I set my SDRAM settings to "non PC 100" while running my processor at 5x100. Not sure your board gives you this kind of flexibility. btw only linux will run reliably with this POS stick, I'm in mandrake 6.1 right now
Not certain of the performance hit you'd take though.

[RAB]

Where have I been? I really missed a good discussion here. I was painting teh house over the weekend and my daughter had the internet all night last night. Oh, well, here I am.

1. The first "PC100" sdram I got was also really "PC95" just like yours. The early stuff was running on the edge and was very troublesom. Got a new stick and it worked fine even at CAS 2.

2. CAS 2 is faster than 3. In your bios, I think its labeled SDRAM Timing (I'm at work and don't remember exactly.) Nonetheless, its the setting about a third of the way down the page in which your only choices are 2 and 3. There are also some other memory timing choices further down the page. Start these at their slowest settings and work your way up.

4. Your old PC95 might run at 3 but its not likely to run at 2. At 3, you might even get to use the 100mhz FSB. But if at all possible, use 2. There is a small improvement in speed. But 128 at 3 is probably better than 64 at 2.

5. The white paste from Radio shack is good and I trust it. I've never used the liguid stuff. Its the same as your old audio days, its primary purpose is to fill the air pockets between two devices since air is a terrible heat conductor. I wouldn't think liquid would work as well, but it is Y2K and things do improve occassionally with time.

6. The power supply blows and the front fan sucks.

7. the motherboard jumper that sets the memory speed should be set a CPU and NOT at AGP. As Alfie said, CPU speed lets the CPU talk to memory at the 100 mhz FSB speed while the AGP setting only lets it talk at 66 mhz. Thats also why your PC95 only works at 95 FSB. It can't talk 100 mhz - only 95. But it can also talk with a slow southern drawl at 66. What you Mississippi boys feed that memory that makes it talk so slow?

Time to go home. I'll look back here later tonight and see what I forgot.

Good Luck Tim.

RAB

[Alfie]

Tim,
You may be right,try all the fans you get,your internal case temp should be quite cool.A simple trick,if you still get lockups,is to reverse the fan on the heatsink
I've found this can drop the temp on the cpu by up to 6 degrees.
You may want to do this anyway,but wait 'til
you get the other fans in,because the 3-6 degrees dropped off the cpu seem to go to the case.
Good luck and with all those fans you'll probably save on air conditioning come summer time!

[This message has been edited by Alfie (edited 05 January 2000).]

[Bixler]

Good to hear from you RAB...I was wondering whether I'd just worn you out or something. Heh.

This is info referring to your post and DentyCracker's above.

Several suggestions in this thread, including yours, refer to CAS2 and CAS3. I'm dimly aware that this refers to whether it will run with faster FSB/CPU speeds, but it's time for a stupid newbie type explanation...I've always thought it meant 8NS vs 10NS and was just another hideous acronym designed to keep us confused. Am I anywhere near the mark?

Anyway: I've double/triple checked, and my trusty Award Bios Ver4.51 doesn't give me any CAS options at all.

What I DO have is options under 'Chipset Features Setup' to twiddle with different DRAM timings for Bank 1, Bank 2, and Bank 3, and then a 'Dram read Pipeline' setting with enable/disable. My options for DRAM Timings, curiously enough, CHANGE depending on the FSB switch settings on my mobo. If I have set the FSB to 95 Mhz so all of my memory is recognized, Bank 1 and 2 DRAM Timing allow me the following options:

1. SDRAM 8NS
2. SDRAM 10NS
3. Normal
4. Turbo
5. Medium
6. Fast

If I push the FSB up to 100MHz (thus losing one of my memory sticks then go back into my BIOS, my options change!

Bank 1 DRAM timing allows for:

1. 60 NS EDO
2. 70 NS EDO
3. Normal
4. Turbo
5. Medium
6. Fast

No SDRAM option is present.

Weird

OK, I've TRIED, and the substandard stick won't run regardless of the options that I can select in my BIOS if my FSB is set above 95 on the mobo.

Anyway, I'm happy, the K63@428 is snappy and the $89.00 was a good investment in speed and know-how.

Alfie: You said

A simple trick, if you still get lockups, is to reverse the fan on the heatsink

Currently the fan is blowing Down on the fins toward the CPU. I want to make sure that I understand you correctly...If I need more cooling after the case fan business, I want the CPU fan to suck air across the fins and then blow out away from the CPU? I just want to make sure we're on the same page.

Thanks! My fans will be in by Monday, and I'll let you know.

[RAB]

I pulled up your motherboard manual on the net today and you are correct - your board does not have a CAS setting. I guess when the board was made, it was only stable with a 3 setting and SOYO probably didn't want users changing it and causing instability.

I can't remember exactly what CAS stands for (its Column Access "something") but it is the number of CPU cycles it takes the memory to move or read data between "columns" inside the memory itself. The BIOS setting tells the CPU how many cycles to wait before it makes another memory column request.

Think of the data inside your memory as a large spreadsheet. CAS2 memory can move data between columns in 2 CPU cycles, and CAS3 takes 3. Memory can change ROWS in 1 cycle, but for some reason it takes longer to change columns. Obviously, its far more complicated than this, but basically its the internal speed of the memory itself. If your CPU is asking for a column switch before the previous one is finished, it causes instability.

Its somewhat related to CPU speed because some memory that works at CAS2 at normal speed, can't use CAS2 when the CPU is overclocked. Switching to CAS3 can sometimes help overclocking, but the memory slowdown partially offsets any benefit of overclocking.

I know this is way oversimplified and problably inaccurate in part, but its the best my little brain can remember. I hope it gives you an idea of what CAS means. Anybody with more technical knowledge than me is welcome to correct my feeble attempt to explain CAS.

RAB

[paulcs]

Boy, that EDO business is pretty weird. I assume it's the PC95 DIMM that's causing your BIOS to misidentify your RAM.

I'm hoping this is all for the good. The boost in CPU speed is always nice.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Bixler]

RAB: I owe you one for that 1st graders explanation.

SANDRA reports the memory as CAS3. BTW, have you been following your post on Comp Audio...Haig blessed us with a lot of good s**t over there. Thanks!

PaulCS: AFAIK the old trusty SOYO MB was an early generation SS7, and I DO strongly suspect that they hardwired the CAS3 option, after reading RAB's nice explanation above. After talking to the tech at PCShoppingWorld (don't buy there!) and getting that BS about dropping the memory sync back to AGP speed, it smells to me like they've been fighting some stability problems by eliminating performance to solve them. SS7 again! It's still worth it to stay out of the Wintel Hegemony I guess! I'm now on day 3 with the case off, and running pretty durn cool!

[Bixler]

OK Alfie:

remember by overclocking the cpu, it's the cpu itself thats getting hot. It's far more adviseable to get a specific cpu fan and heatsink from either merchant mentioned. Cooling the case helps, but...Cool that cpu!

Advice taken, a little out of proper sequence, but you were correct. Case cooling only delayed the onset of instability, and since I leave my 'puter on, your advice will be belatedly taken. I've ordered the (heh!) BigMoFo from 3dfxcool, and removed my case again. I guess my mid tower is just too cramped to get enough air flow to my high-mounted CPU.

Just Keeping you up to date on the "Continuing Stoooory" of Bixler's rolling upgrade.

Thanks for the word of caution Alfie, or I'da been off on some other wild goose chase, and cursing the darkness.

[Alfie]

Tim,
I hope you measured before purchasing,the fan and heatsink is one that heavy-duty overclocker's use.It's huge!
Don't be surprised if your case tilts over!
It will definitely get the cpu down in temp,
if it doesn't fit try the lil fo mo(I think that's what it's called)
Good luck!

[Wombat]

Well, as for big heatsinks, I just ordered myself an Alpha. Dear Lord, that thing's huge.

[Bixler]

Well, given all the suff I've stuffed into my case, the desk it's sittin' on is starting to buckle. One good thing about the ole SOYO mobo design is that the cpu kinda hangs out there alone, so it should work. In the meantime, the WAF (That's "Wife Acceptance Factor" according to RAB) is low. Now I've got a vacuum cleaner running and open girders in my den, and all for a little bitty 5% overclock.

Aint this fun?

[Bixler]

No joy with BigMoFoHo--a couple of capacitors are in the way. Jeez with the kind of real estate this mama takes up, I can't imagine what board it WOULD fit.

The advice above about heatsink compound DID have a big effect though...48 hours with 3dfxcool's "Goop" compound on my old sink and fan with the case on, and I'm stable. If anyone is interested, the fancy new liquid H/S compound from Radio Shack is a bust--not enough contact or heat transfer to make a difference.

The tiniest little things make a difference.

I'm still gonna upgrade the sink/fan though...just to be sure. And I highly recommend 3dfxcool. Responsive, competitive, and plenty of Info on what you're buying with a lot of good little tips tucked into the descriptions.

BUT 3dfxcool was most kine

[Bixler]

Just a final note on this thread. Finally got my Alpha fan/heatsink installed and am running cool as a cucumber case on and all components running.

Thanks for all the help you guys...and although I'm sure the forum heavyweights learned little that's new, I now have gained one-half inkling and something of a clue, and had a lot of fun doing it.

Case closed--Literally

And a SS7 captive for one more hardware cycle.

[Alfie]

Stay cool!